85 hp shift rod seal issues

[mbalogh]

Hey everyone -

I was having shifting issues with my 1988 85 hp Force last summer and thanks to everyone here, found it to be the all too common problem with the shift rod seal. I replaced the seal and the boat shifted perfectly for a while.

Unfortunately, as the summer wore on, the shifting continued to get worse and worse. By the end of the summer, it almost wouldn't go into gear again. At the end of the summer I pulled the lower unit off again and, lo and behold, the shift rod seal was binding up even though it looks 100% fine. It seems odd to me that the seal would swell up and bind after only a month in the water. I did put a bit of marine grease on the shaft to lube it last time I replaced the seal... maybe that's gunking it up?

I purchased a new seal so I can replace it again, but could someone enlighten me as to whether there is some special lube to use or procedure for doing the replacement? Really specific directions would be appreciated including which side is up on the seal, if there's a special lube to use, etc etc.

Many thanks for your great advice!
Mike

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

I don't know if there is special procedure. I just pull the old one out and pop the replacement into place. I did notice that there are a couple of different styles. Some of the seals have a thin metal washer like cap. The metal part of the seal should be facing up. At least that's the way they are on all the units that I have.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

On my 10 Sailor, the instructions call for detaching the gear case, unscrewing the shift rod and pulling it out, then pushing the seal out from the bottom end using a 1/4 inch rod. The seal is rubber without the circular spring found on the larger driveshaft seal. If you have a spring seal, I believe it faces up. I'm not sure what type of seal you have for your 85, but it sounds to me like your shift rod might be binding/flexing somwhere, maybe destroying the seal.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

More info?
Salt or fresh water.
Overheat?
You have to reallllllly clean the boss around the gasket sealing area.
Too much sealer isin't good either.

 

[mbalogh]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Thanks for the responses guys. Maybe a pic would help? This is the replacement seal... Same as the one I put in last summer. Seems like some sort of hard rubber.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?res...uthkey=!AO222c69Efa_os0&v=3&ithint=photo,.jpg

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Install new shift rod seal with chamfered end of seal facing down in seal bore

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

couldn't pull up the pic (think I need a password), and will defer to foodfisher. For my Sailor, there were spring seals made of rubber, and one in a metal cup. As I recall, the rubber ones were used for the driveshaft. My driveshaft seal under the impeller was spinning free in the bore (replaced the seal). If your shift rod seal was loose in the housing, that could have been or contributed to your shifting problem. It also would have leaked oil, which would have been visible around the seal.

 

[mbalogh]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Thanks foodfisher, good info. Jerryjerry05, it's freshwater and not overheating. Oldboat1, the original seal was torn up and definitely bad. The one I put in last summer looks fine, isnt loose, but is binding really badly. The only reason I can come up with is the grease gunking it up.

I guess I'll just clean up the boss and shift rod really well and see what happens. Thanks guys.

Mike

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

The seal looks like all rubber but it is actually a steel cup over a rubber seal. You screw a lag bolt into the old seal and pull it out of the case. You inspect the new seal and determine which side has the steel cup. Insert the seal steel side up into the case. Lubricate and insert the shift rod. Be careful not to let the threaded end damage the seal bore. Fish around and screw it back into the yoke.

Now, using an appropriately sized socket and a length of pipe. LIGHTLY hammer on the seal until it squeezes the shift rod to seal it from water. Press it into the case so there is a slight drag when the rod is pulled up and down but it does not take excessive force. Later, if the seal does leak, you can repeat the process to reseal if the seal itself is not torn.

If you new seal is torn you need to check the shift rod for scratches and gouges. Look to see if it is bent or if there is a kink right at the seal area. (Sometimes during lower unit installation, ham handed people will bend the shift rod and the straighten nit by hand. This can cause a kink in the rod) It should be perfectly straight. If not, replace the rod. As a last resort, if the new seal goes bad and the shift rod looks good, replace the shift rod anyway.

 

[mbalogh]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Thanks Frank. What do you lube it with? I'll let you all know how it goes when I get around to doing the job.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Lube with a little bit of lower unit oil--after all, that's what will contact the seal and that is what it is resistant to. And, you know: With the one piece lower unit it is not necessary to remove the shift rod and then need to fish around to get it back in. You pull off the water pump and base while maintaining the lower unit vertical so you don't lose oil or spill it all over the place. Then, after removing the old and lightly inserting the new, push it back over the shift rod.

I was thinking two piece lower unit when I wrote the first reply.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

Hey Frank, wouldn't that work with my 10hp Sailor too? That is, drop the lower unit and carefully pull out the shift rod seal with the rod in place, then slip a new seal over the rod? It's a two piece lower unit, but the shift rod seal up up at the top -- seems to be within reach. I don't THINK mine leaks, but have one if I need it. (probably should have opened a new thread, but a shift rod seal issue, in any case.)

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

If the sailor is the same as the regular models, the top of the shift rod has a flat where the upper and lower are screwed together. Additionally, there is no lower water pump plate. The seal is pressed right into the casting. You must remove the rod to remove the seal.

HOWEVER: The shift rod screws into a captive cam which can not slip out of position. Thus, you can unscrew the rod and very easily screw it back in after replacing the seal.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 85 hp shift rod seal issues

ah, right -- flat spot would prevent sliding the seal up and over, or probably more importantly would not permit sliding the new seal on without damaging it. If I get to a point where I think the seal should be replaced, I'll try unscrewing the rod and replacing it after the new seal is in place. Thanks.