85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

[Luna Sea]

Still boo-hoo’in. 2 full seasons with the same problem. $1400 to a mechanic this summer, 3 visits, then he tells me replace the stator, timing base and power pack, another $600. Got it running, ok it cuts out at 5000 rpm’s, then it’s cutting out at 4500 rpm’s, then 4000, 3500, 3000, now I’m barely getting to 2800, tach goes screwy, surges, push key in, tach goes up and down. I’ve changed fuel lines, filter’s and fitting’s a dozen times on this thing! Got new tank, changed water separator, had 2 different pumps in there this season, replaced all fuel lines and filters this weekend, after my grief situation offshore sat night, was cutting out at 2000! Go squeeze bulb, start it up, run for 10 minutes, repeat, repeat……. At least it’s moving now. Had the carbs rebuilt by a mechanic. He claims he link’n synched em. What else is there? We had the heads off earlier this season, do I need another decarb? Did that last season. Could I have a problem with reed valves? Have good compression, could I be losing compression at speed? Enough to affect the pulse feed line? I rebuilt one VRO pump, then bought another one off a member here. I read last week on here about “spraying suspected air leaks with……????” I’ve asked on here a couple times before about just putting an inline pump from NAPA in there and plugging the pulse line. Should that be next? Reading 15.2 volts at battery with engine running. Out of money, rents due, summer shot…………… please advise????

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Could there be water in the fuel? What does the water seperator filter look like when you empty it?

 

[The Marine Doctor]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

It's possible that a reed block has come loose.<br /><br />TMD

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Dhadley,<br /><br />Poured fuel into white bucket, no sign of water, well, maybe 2 or 3 drops, but not like it was on from my leaky old Tempo tank I replaced in June. (Water was leaking in through top). <br /><br />I've gone through all this so many times now, bypassed inline filter yesterday, no diff. (didn't like Tempo's "3/8 OR 7/16" model). Next I'll be bypassin the water separator. I suppose I should drain the carbs too before I panic. Again. <br /><br />Marine Doctor,<br /><br />How can you tell if a "reed block" is loose?<br />(i.e. How much dis-assembly..?)<br /><br />And thank yee both for tryin.....

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Any alarms or sensors that could be doing this to me? I disconnected the VRO a while back, and was told "not" to ground the tan wire to the block. Had it grounded for a while. Tested overheat alarm last week, touched tan wires up by t'stat to block, not working.....

 

[The Marine Doctor]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Just removal of the carbs. Then take a peak inside the hole that is left.<br /><br />TMD

 

[OBJ]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Luna.....has anyone pulled the heads to look for a blown head gasket?<br /><br />If the rig idles like crap and fuel consumption is up, pull the heads and look for shiny places on the pistons. Sure indicator of water getting into the cylinders. Just my opinon, that's what it sounds like.

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

OutboardJim,<br /><br />Mechanic pulled both heads back in June, one had some damage, looked like maybe just from someone prying it with a screwdriver, his opinion. Pistons looked ok. Found good used head, 2 new gaskets.<br /><br />General update...<br /><br />All 4 plugs are black and a little oily when I replace them, definately firing and running on 4. Course with the vro disconnected now, and me running at idle speed all the time now, guess that's expected. <br /><br />Need boat as is for next couple weeks, parting out my old houseboat/camp, getting er ready for scrap before the cold weather. Sure would be nice to get the 120 going to speed for some fun in between though. May try that Seafoam miracle stuff next. Little afraid to pull off the carbs right now, to look for the reeds, as I've never done that. Mechanic pulled them a second time though, to recheck the floats. AND he peplaced some kind of gasket behind there too, that he was bragging about "spotting" as being bad.<br /><br />Still thinking pump again though, first I rebuilt one, worked for a while, then problems worsened again. Got one from member here, worked for a while, problem worsened. Took new rebuild parts from old pump, put em in new one... Voila, but only worked for a while, then problem worsened...<br />Would like input on a NAPA inline one though!? <br /><br />Checking hose clamps all the time, frustrating, never know. Sure seems like fuel? Bogs, dies out (after some up and down rpm). Go squeeze bulb, starts up, runs at low rpm's. But throttle up abeve 3000, look stupid out there, me rocking fore and aft, 2 full seasons of this same problem. <br /><br />Any input welcome guys, gotta be missin something. Not speaking with old mechanic anymore, on my own , may be looking for new mechanic to get it running next year.......

 

[The Marine Doctor]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

When the VRO was replaced...did the Tech's or yourself replace the Pulser that is on the engine?<br /><br />If you did not and have the original Flame Arrestor on there...its possible you are blowing diaphrams in your VRO.<br /><br />TMD

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Thanks Doc,<br /><br />Brand new shiny Flame arrestor in there with a big hex on it (think the hex is on me though ). Replaced the old, smaller hex style that looked like it had the stainless steel "Chore Boy" stuffed inside of it. And the "tech" put that in. Maybe I should pull the hose off, pull it out and make sure there's some teflon tape on the threads? And it's tight? Good point with the diaphram though Doc.! That's a part I could buy and still pay the rent!

 

[93bronco]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

im just curious - when you said "didnt like tempo's 7/16 or 3/8 model".<br />what did you mean?<br />ive looked at all tempo tanks & could only find a 1/4inch draw which is no good.<br />J/E require 5/16 min with 3/8 ideal.<br />-<br />just putting a 7/16 or 3/8 fitting on elbow wont do any good.<br />just asking.<br />-<br />got the point below, and if it helped great!!

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

2K<br /><br />Thanks for the bump <br /><br />..."bypassed inline filter yesterday, no diff. (didn't like Tempo's "3/8 OR 7/16" model)."<br /><br />Stupid inline Tempo filter I bought said "for 3/8 OR 7/16 fuel lines". Seemed to have the 7/16 first, then a huge barb, then the 3/8 (the 2nd dia. back is smaller than the first one-doesn't make sense to me!). And of course my pump is up high on the looper so there's a little bit of a strain on the little soft plastic tube coming out of the filter as my hose bends up. Course I got no filter in there now....AND still......... <br /><br />Need boat this weekend, guess I could do some trolling for my "fun". Wondering if some of that magic stuff everyones raving about on here called Sea Foam..... If I can find some locally I'll do a decarb tonight....... <br /><br />So tough to figure if it's fuel or something else making it cut out. Just cause I go back there and squeeze the bulb before I restart, or push in the key switch in when it's dying and get a little life out of the rpm gage doesn't necessarily mean fuel, or does it??<br /><br />Only ignition component not replaced is regulator rectifier and coils....<br /><br />Thanks for the reply, (and the bump )

 

[vidar]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Hi there! i used an automobile fuel pump when testing my fuel system.. worked perfect on my suzy 140....i stiill use it (no more pumping)..just bypassed the original pump. just be sure it pumps enoough fuel for yoour motor and no higher pressure than 0.25 bar..

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Thanks Norway <br /><br />Been thinking same, inline pump from auto store. Block off pulse line. Know I have to wire it to something that dies when engine stalls, need help picking wire to splice into. Need to find affordable pump first though. Anyone know what psi I'm lookong for?<br /><br />Thanks guys

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

No SeaFoam available locally, picking up some "ValvTect Marine Motor De-Carb" after work. Spray tonight, out tomorrow to see....<br />If that don't get the gremlins out, NAPA has an inline 3.5-5.5 psi CG certified fuel pump for $60 I'll be picking up next week. Anyone know the nearest/safest ignition wire for me to splice into? (i.e. color). And yes I have a manual... Enjoy the weekend guys

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Updating this “same” post till problem’s solved:<br /><br />Friday night-Only hose I hadn’t checked since mechanic had it was the pulse line, changed it, pulled flame arrestor, put Teflon tape on threads, tightened all clamps.<br /><br />Saturday-Brought it up to 2800, ran good for a while, tried to hit 3000, mistake, surging up and down again. Gave someone a ride home from the island, he sat in back and squeezed primer bulb. BOAT RAN FINE!<br /><br />SO IT IS A FUEL PROBLEM! That certainly narrows it down for me. Rebuilt one vro pump already, then put a new one in, then rebuilt that one…… Never did like the way the hose comes out of the top and bends down sharply, I have the mounting bracket shimmed out with a couple washers to decrease that bend in the output line.<br /><br />With carbs rebuilt by a mechanic, and then double checked by them, all new fuel lines and tanks, has to be pump!(?). Going to NAPA at lunch, they have 2 CG approved inline models. A 3.5-5.5 psi and a 10-14 psi. Would the 10-14 be too much for my 120 Looper? And is there a terminal I can hook it up too without cutting into the ignition harness? Maybe on the solenoid?<br /><br />Thanks in advance guys……………..

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Assuming (you never said) you will remove the existing fuel/oil pump the 10-14 will overpower the floats. The 3.5-5.5 will work fine with out the pump as a regulator.<br /><br />Heres the deal as we understand it -- the pumps are CG approved because in the I/O and inboard world they are automatically shut off if the oil pressure drops. IE -- the fuel pump will not continus to run if the engine quits and the key is still on. They have a 3 second or so circuit they are hooked into to allow a cold start just like your car. <br /><br />On an outboard there really isnt any such safty back up system. Generally this is not an issue unless your insurance company figures it out. Yes, we use that very system on race boats and the electric fuel pump has its own "kill" switch. We tie the pump into any purple wire (B+ or key "ON" voltage only). It could be tied into a pressure switch of some sort (fuel or vacuum) I suppose but we've never went that far on a race boat. We did think about tieing it into the tack but that lead to depending on the reg/rec to keep working. Plus you'd have to create the 3 second "start up" circuit too.<br /><br />The big concern is a fuel line leak. The inboard will shut down and the pump will stop due to the oil pressure switch. On the outboard the motor may stop but the pump will continue to pump fuel into the bilge or where ever the leak is. <br /><br />Be careful!

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Dhadley,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply. Yes, I will be removing the plugged up/disconnected VRO pump that I've been using for "fuel only", and trying this inline idea. IF this solves the problem, I could very well buy the correct pump over the winter. But this is the second pulse line driven pump I've had on there and no matter how many new lines, clamps, and tanks I try I just can't get it to run good. Neither could a mechanic. I am still wondering though, anthough it's probably been a vaccum or fuel line routing problem, could it be possible for the cylinder that drives the pump to be losing compression at certain rpm's? Is this unheard of? I know it would mean serious problems ahead but......... Compression is all 135 +/- 5 percent cold......<br /><br />Thanks again

 

[93bronco]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

if you find out that this is the problem, why not get the premix pump #438402 @ $155.00, being you arnet using the vro anymore.

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: 85 Looper, WTF’s with the fuel system ?????

Thanks 2K,<br /><br />Good part number, and price! <br /><br />Picked up my new inline pump at lunch, more of a troubleshooting item at this point. Want to block the pulse line off and eliminate a few items (old pump). Will post my sucess (?) story next monday, and hopefully go from there......