85hpForce Rebuild or not??

[brownhornet]

I have an 1986 Force 85hp motor. The last few times out I had starting issues . I did a compression check 110-110-105. When is it time for a rebuild? I have cleaned the carbs. Once it starts its fine, but it just takes forever to start?? Any ideas or area to look for???? Thanks

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

The low reading on the tester is probably the guage.They are all within 5#s of each other.Get another guage.Or how are you testing?You doing it right?
The compression on all three would be way different if there was a problem.Like a 120 55 then a125 That would be a problem.
Poor starting could be old plugs,carbs full of gunk,water in the tank.Linkage not in sinc.
Ethanol is messing with a lot of motors.See my signature.
Tell us more of what it's doing.

Is the choke solenoid operating?J

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

When I go to start her up just cranks for way to long. I have to crank for maybe 3-5times. then it start to sound like shes about to start..I have cleaned the carbs. new plugs. Not sure what to do about the Ethanol issues. The Cmp is all very close just not sure where to go I guess I'll try checking the timing. OH forgot. the beginning of the season; new starter bendix(wore out rubber in the old one),new plugs,new fuel pump diapm and clean carbs..

 

[emoney]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

How about your fuel lines, fuel bulb and tank itself? I had a 'running' issue
that turned out to be a primer bulb not remaining firm. You may have
checked that already, just a suggestion.

Once you get it started, does it run great...after warm up? If so, how's the
choke solenoid? Is it engaging when you choke the motor at startup?
Sounds like it's wanting more fuel than you're providing at the initial startup,
so it's probably not too big of an issue.

I know on my little Chrysler, if I don't put her through the "just right" choke
sequence at start up she's real cantankerous to get going. Once she's
warm, no issues. I need to hold the key in for choke until she gets started,
have the "warm up throttle" full forward, close my right eye, squint with
my left, hold my breath and stick out 1/8th of an inch of my tongue. When
I do that....fires right up.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

My 85 Force (1985) starts easy: crank for 2 seconds with choke on and it will kick, then crank with no choke and it fires right up. Even after sitting a few hours, it will start with just a bump of the starter.

So yes, there are issues with the motor. I would start with a good carb cleaning. Compression is getting rather low, which indicates many years of use. Too much lower and it will not start at all.

A rebuilt power head will run about $900.

You have to decide if its worth the expense to fix such an old motor, or save up some more and put the money toward something newer.

Another option is to buy a good running 85 Force and then keep your motor for spare parts (stator, ignition, starter, gear case, etc). A similar Force can be had in good condition for under a $1000 on ebay and craigs list. I have one I will be selling in the spring. Expect to get about $900 for it.

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

where are you finding a rebuilt powerhead for 900 cheapest ive found was 1800

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Try a decarb to bring the compression up. Proper starting sequence w/clean plugs will probably solve starting problems.

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

I De-carb the motor about 3weeks ago. I was looking into new piston and rings. They have two diff pistons here and no review(Mallory&Seilly I think) not sure what brand would be better. Once it start it good to go.. Yes the choke works fine. Thinking about trying to find a way to add a toggle switch to the dash. I so so so hate the push key in to choke. Not a good way to go when you have hands the size of mine. after a few cranks the bulb is not firm maybe crank 4-7sec about 3-4 times and I have to pump the bulb again. Thought about a re-man Power head. But for that price(all around 1100-1600) I can find another boat. I guess it time for me to fine a I\O set up. something I know like the back of my hand(ASE Cert mech over 10yrs)

 

[SweeperForce]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Non ethonal gas is scarce at best in my area, I've been running with Stabil gas treatment. No problems thus far. It is supposed to remove the negitive effects of ethonal enriched fuels. Plus it improves starting. Make sure you get the green bottle not the red. The green is designed for marine use. It is expensive, $10 for a small bottle but it treats 80 gallons.

My motor too was hard to start. I ran 15 gallons of fuel with Stabil in it and now she fires up in under three attempts.

Hope this helps
Tom

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Ok so today I will try the green Sta-bil. and run it thru both my 6gal tanks. and see what that does. I have seen on other post asking if a person did a wet or dry compr test???? I see Im lost on this and dont know as much as I thought.. What is the diff. In the test.. I did mine like I do for any motor. pull the plug wires and one my one remove s\p and screw in the gauge, crank motor over for about2-3 sec wait and crank again. Then read gauge is this correct??

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Dry=no lube. Wet= spray a lube (wd 40) into cylinder before test.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Low compression as such is not an absolute indicator of problems and many engines run well with lower than factory specification conpression. The three readings are essentially equal which does indicate nothing major is wrong, ie. no mechanical damage like a broken ring. Don't forget: The smaller engines like 5-10 HP only have about 100-110 PSI compression. So yours should run with those readings.

A wet compression test is simply squirting about a teaspoonfull of oil into the cylinder then checking compression. It tends to increase the seal of the rings and increases the reading. As Jerry said though. the reading you had could be because of the gauge. Cheaper ones are not as accurate.

Since with every revolution, the engine gets a fresh shot of oil, rings tend to last a long time. It takes gadzillions of running hours or abuse to actually wear out rings. In your case, the rings MAY be carboned and a Seafoam treatment MAY help compression. It will not help hard starting.

Some of these engines are --as said above--very fussy and will only start with the correct sequence of incantations LOL.

Actually, a well tuned engine should start very quickly if the correct sequence is followed.

SO, at this point, I think you should NOT be considering a rebuild but should go over the fuel and ignition systems. Review your starting procedure, especially cold starting, and be certain the idle speed is correct

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

OK so I got the boat out to the river today. And I will be D@mn. The SOD starts on the 3rd try... Push in to choke turn the key, and it cranks and pop. So ok no more choke. Turn the key it starts and dies, last time it starts and run like a champ... last time out I broke my prop getting the the garage(whole other tread on that one) put the spare on when I went out and well 34mph!!!! WTH the other prop only got 30 tops with one person in the boat.. 34 with 2people!!! WOW. So here is the list of changes... New primer bulb, 16oz of oil in each tank(6gal each) Same 87oct fuel and found the Green Sta-Bil added 2oz to each tank. I know it says one per 5gal. So Never had it that I know of so double up lol.. Old prop was 13X19 not sure of the prop that on it. The only numbers I can find are 19 but tht is it...

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Oh I have a L-Drive question... What was bad about the set up.. Was it the drive or the motor?? I saw a 19ft with a 125hp L-Drive.. Was told to run fast and long from it... ??

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

WOW! Hjacking your own thread! LOL

The L drive was simply an outboard 2 cycle block mounted inside the boat and connected to an outdrive. While the Force block was just about standard, the connection to the outdrive and the drive itself were not.

Some run well, but a significant amount crap out.

When a problem arises, no components are available for repair. That combination of engine and drive train has a bad reputation, so why take a chance? Would you buy an automobile or TV that consumer's digest gave a poor rating?. Run, don't walk away.

Additionally, some people did not realize that being a 2 cycle engine, oil needed to be added to the gas. They ran them like a typical I/O (straight gas) and burned out the engine.

Now that said, me, being a contrarian and enjoying a challenge might be tempted to buy one if the price was right---Just to see if I could keep it running. However, I would go into it EXPECTING problems and it would not be my primary boat, just a toy to play with.

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Thanks Acampora. Well its 500bucks for the whole sha-bang. Boat tailor tube ropes and all. But at 19ft and my primary boat is only 15 I would wanna use the larger boat more....

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

Ahhh! There's the rub: You actually want to use it.

Even at 500 bucks, it's probably not a bargain. (unless the trailer is upscale and in pristine condition) However, if you test drive it ON THE WATER and it runs, at least you know you will get some use from it before it possibly gives you problems. Your money--your choice!

 

[brownhornet]

Re: 85hpForce Rebuild or not??

3 kids in college and 3in high school and 1 in middle school.. I guess I will save my pennies lol lol