'86 liberator restore

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: '86 liberator restore

What do you recommend then? Matt and a layer of woven or something? 1708 even? Im most likely to just copy what they did from factory. It was all CSM and the only woven material was under the ski locker for some reason. Poly wont bond well without matt first though so i dunno. Also covering the stringers in 1708 will only be a mechanical bond to the CSM tabbing unless its done while still tacky, but thats still no worse than the mechanical bond to the hull.

I would recommend you start your own thread ...

YD.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

My liberator was only CSM as well. Four Winns said that from the factory that this was the way they were built. But if you are taking the time he would use one or two layers of woven roving and cap the tops of the stringer.

 

[Dos mangos]

Re: '86 liberator restore

when I did my stringer replacement I used GUNK then placed the stringer into the GUNK and glassed the stringer to the hull, I got the GUNK at Michigan fiberglass in st clair shores Michigan

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

YD and Ondarvr,
Thanks for all of your in is of great value. So I think I am going to just float everything and leave the voids open, just bridge them with glass. My transom has a small 1/4" piece of ply to make the thickness for the OD. It fits between the thru hull exhaust and is about 2 feet wide and about 3/4 of the way up thr transom. Should I tab the transom in first then glue and glass over the additional piece? Or, should I glue it to the transom then tab in. It looks like this was added later to reach the correct width for a Mercruiser outdrive. My transom is 1 1/2" thick and the outside skin is 1/4" thick. Giving me 1 3/4 before the addition of the small 1/4 thick piece. WHat do you all think. I was in an earlier thread and asked some of the same questions. I had forgot about your responses to my own thread. Thanks Again Stefan

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

So I guess I have decided to not bed the stringers as they were floating from the factory. I hate having the gap but I want everything to line up properly. The bulkheads were floating as well. I have noticed from other posts that an option may be to remover the second engine stringer but not cutting out the glass and motormount in the engine area. I may try to glue the new stringer to the existing glass and just tab and glass the back. Basicaly using the existing mout and front of the sringer as I can pull the wood out of the back. What do you all think? I can save a lot of glassing and time. I have not call FW about this idea. It seems that people on here have more experience on rebuilding than the factory. The glass over the motor mount and inner side of the stringer is about 3/8" thick.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

This is a pic of the existing mount with the old wood still in it. Hoping to pull old wood out of the back and put a new stringer in. The first 2 pics are of the mount and stringer I want to replace by gluing and saving the glass work in the engine well. The other pics are of the first one that I removed and am currently putting back. I plan to use a scarf joint and PL premium to glue to existing wood and to glue the new wood to the existing glass. Any input would be greatly appereciated. Thanks

 

[Fingernip]

Re: '86 liberator restore

This is identical to my santara 210. I ground everything out but left the faint print of the original mounts to make it easier to replace them. I say rip it all out and glass in your new stringers, then glass in new mounts. Its really not that much more work or materials than what your doing. If yours is anything line mine then you will find tons of voids with water pockets in the glasswork once you remove the wood. using them as forms will leave too many areas for water to collect.

 

[rickryder]

Re: '86 liberator restore

You could dig them out and do like I did and pour them with seacast. Then do your stringers and bulks in wood and glass. Look on my thread page 4 post 78

 

[Fingernip]

Re: '86 liberator restore

You could dig them out and do like I did and pour them with seacast. Then do your stringers and bulks in wood and glass. Look on my thread page 4 post 78

I like this idea. I originally planned to do this with mine too but the glass was in poor shape and had to come out. I might even still consider making some forms and going that route.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

Hey Rick,
Why did you use nida core? Why not just glue a new stringer in? Did you pour that into your mouts? It looks like you backed the stringer with the nida or seacast.

 

[rickryder]

Re: '86 liberator restore

I said seacast but meant Nida.... I had a little different issue than you have. If you look through the pictures you'll see I ran my stringer from the bow all the way to the motor mount,then put a backer board in so I would have a channel to pour into. My stringer butted the aft bulkhead in original design but I ran it through and notched the bulk over the stringer. Another reason I did it that way was to have easy access to pour the Nida since the motor was in the boat.

A good amount of the wood was gone in the mount so I dug it out to good plywood so the Nida would fill the area. In the next set of pics I post (next weekend) you will see the stringer next to the motor port side is only 36" long and it creates the side of the bilge,that butts the bulkhead and goes to the transom.

PM me if you need further explanation on how and why I did what you see in the pics

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

My transom is 1 1/2" thick plus about 3/8' for the outter skin. Then there is a 1/4 piece of wood that is only about 2' wide by about 3' high. I believe it is put there to achieve the correct thickness for the outdrive. Can anyone tell me if I should tab the transom in before or after I attach this final piece of plywood? I am worried it may stick out at the bottom if I put it on after the tabbing. I think the FW guy said to put it on after and the original did not look like it was tabbed there. I looked like it only had mat over it to seal out water.

 

[rickryder]

Re: '86 liberator restore

I would make it all one piece....I found a lot of little pieces of wood in my FW that I just didn't understand why they were there and they weren't glassed well at all....

 

[rickryder]

Re: '86 liberator restore

How about an update? How you making out GB?

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

I have a question I need help with, hoping you all can help. I have glassed in my first stringer in my rebuild. I will also be building a new motor mount for that side. On the other side I am replacing the stringer as well. I used a scarf joint and epoxy for the first stringer and then glassed with poly. The other sringer has about 15 feet of good glass on one side and the motor mount and heavy glass in the bilge are good. My Four Winns contact said to glue the new stringer to the existing glass for the bilge and the long run. He told me to use PL Premium for the transom gluing when I replaced it but he told me to use epxoy to glue the stringer. That is what I did for the first one. But it was only the joint, all of the tabbing was new and done with poly. The glass tabbing from the bilge forward is much less than the tabbing for the mount and stringer in the motor area. It is al least 1/4" thick in the motor area. I wonder if I could use the PL Premium for gluing the stringer to the 15' section, and use epoxy for the section that is going to be up against the existing glass in the motor well are and mount? I could even use epoxy to tab in the back side in this area, although I was planning on using poly. I will use poly for the oposite side on the 15' run. I thought since he told me to use PL on the transom that it would be good for the stringer but he said I should use epoxy. It is so darn expesive and the long run on the stringer is only about 1/8" thick in the tabbing then tappers to about nothing at the top of the stringer. Help please..All feed back is greatly appreciated.

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: '86 liberator restore

I have a question I need help with, hoping you all can help. I have glassed in my first stringer in my rebuild. I will also be building a new motor mount for that side. On the other side I am replacing the stringer as well. I used a scarf joint and epoxy for the first stringer and then glassed with poly. The other sringer has about 15 feet of good glass on one side and the motor mount and heavy glass in the bilge are good. My Four Winns contact said to glue the new stringer to the existing glass for the bilge and the long run. He told me to use PL Premium for the transom gluing when I replaced it but he told me to use epxoy to glue the stringer. That is what I did for the first one. But it was only the joint, all of the tabbing was new and done with poly. The glass tabbing from the bilge forward is much less than the tabbing for the mount and stringer in the motor area. It is al least 1/4" thick in the motor area. I wonder if I could use the PL Premium for gluing the stringer to the 15' section, and use epoxy for the section that is going to be up against the existing glass in the motor well are and mount? I could even use epoxy to tab in the back side in this area, although I was planning on using poly. I will use poly for the oposite side on the 15' run. I thought since he told me to use PL on the transom that it would be good for the stringer but he said I should use epoxy. It is so darn expesive and the long run on the stringer is only about 1/8" thick in the tabbing then tappers to about nothing at the top of the stringer. Help please..All feed back is greatly appreciated.

shew! do some research on the bondability between epoxy and poly. Back and forth is not a good thing! there are a bunch of threads discussing this. Call us composit's or west marine or any other manuf. and see what they have to say.

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

Wow...I just went onto US composites site and a gallon of Epoxy is only $65. I pay $50 for good poly. In my local shops Epoxy is no less that $100 a gallon. I paid $45 for 32oz total. I may use the epoxy not and bail on the PL premium. Still not sure yet. I have plenty of PL and poly on hand. The epoxy will be several days which cuts into my time to work on the boat.

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: '86 liberator restore

Wow...I just went onto US composites site and a gallon of Epoxy is only $65. I pay $50 for good poly. In my local shops Epoxy is no less that $100 a gallon. I paid $45 for 32oz total. I may use the epoxy not and bail on the PL premium. Still not sure yet. I have plenty of PL and poly on hand. The epoxy will be several days which cuts into my time to work on the boat.

the problem is (some one correct me if I am wrong) epoxy will stick to poly but poly wont stick to epoxy. choose one or the other. dont mix back and forth. yd, oops, vegas, jay or arch any one with more experience chime in on this and clarify.

 

[rickryder]

Re: '86 liberator restore

GB I bought 435 poly resin from us composites 5 gallons for $120... don't mix poly and epoxy....your boat was built out of poly.
PL to glue the stringer to the glass NO! When I left a very small section of glass I ground it clean,washed with acetone,csm and poly resin to bond together BUT I also sistered another piece of 3/4 ply to the other side of it and sandwiched it together. then it all got layers of csm and biax to make one solid piece.... Please don't short cut on the stringers and engine mounts....We want to see you in a SAFE boat.

There were some areas that I thought I could leave the existing glass but after talking to oops and Woodonglass I cut it all out and went from scratch.... It was well worth the little extra time and money to know my stringers and bulks are solid as a rock and I'll never have to think about them again

 

[GracieBell1]

Re: '86 liberator restore

So I have gotten one stringer in. My glass work was needs to be a little cleaner. I preped well but when I started I just got a little sloppy. This was my first ever long run of fiberglass. I will be even better prepared for the next time. My transome resin dried dark green but the stringer was yellow like FW's glass work. The manf. of the resin said it could be dark green or yellow. Both were dark rose colored when liquid. I expoied the scarf joint but the dir. were to coat the wood with unthickened epoxy then use the paste like thickened epoxy to glue the joint. What I did not know is how the unthickend epoxy would thin out the paste. so it wanted to run slowly out of the joint. I have to sit there for 30 minutes putting the glue back into the joint. Onec it set I mixed a little more to make sure there were to empty spots. There is about a foot of good glass behind the new stringer. Once glued, the glass on the back acts as a bonding strap for the joint. The glued joint alone is stronger than the wood itself so theoreticaly it should not have a problem. but it will be covered in glass.