88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post and continued

[71Windsor]

First Id like to say this is an amazing forum! Its already helped me a dozen times in getting my outboard running better. (not perfect).

So the engine is a 1988 Johnson 150VRO. The previous owner has already removed the oil injection for me.

Now my current problem is:

Engine idle - misses even 20-30 seconds. example *idle idle idle idle idle *cough* idle idle I know that like 10 year old lingo but it works right lol.

When engine is at idle the ball will soften. I replaced the ball ever year.

Engine Run - 3/4 throttle or more and it will suck the ball completly flat and die out on me.

When priming the ball i can visually see fuel coming out of carbs, now i did notice i probly need a new bowl gasket on the middle carb. But Im guessing that problem is more of less a stuck needle.

What Ive done:

Cleaned and inspected carbs to include checking needle for obstructions and floats.

Ohm'd out my primer/choke 8ohms. Which i believe is ok.

This year I have not checked my filter/seperator becuase i dumped it about 4 times last year while working on this problem.

I sealed the carb cover to ensure no air leaks.

Im ruling out the fuel pump since it will suck the ball flat as a pancake.

I have in inboard tank and have replaced ALL fuel lines from tank to each carb.

I have checked my vent line and it is fine.


--- So would a stuck needle in the carb cause the engine to run like it is and draw the ball flat? I understand the flooding is probly due to that but cant figure out the cough and the ball problem.

Thanks in advance fellas.


Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 88 150vro

Re: 88 150vro

Spitting back, sounding like a mild backfire, indicates a carb slow speed restricted jet..... something causing a lean carburetor scenario. It sounds like a carb rebuild and bath is in your future.

Check the anti syphon valve at your fuel tank. They are notorious for sticking in a semi closed position. Also ensure the vent is clear.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Have you checked the tank pickup for crap? Also, if you have an anti-siphon valve, remove the guts.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

you might also have something in the tank that finds itself on pickup,antisyphon is a good place to start

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

The primer bulb going flat is caused by something in the fuel supply system before the primer bulb: anti-siphon valve; tank pickup; or tank vent.

When the float valves are working properly, the only way fuel can run from the carburetors using the primer bulb is a bad primer solenoid or the valve connected to it. There is a kit to repair the valve.

That is because the primer bulb just moves fuel to the float bowl and stops when the bowls are full because the float closes the valve and will not allow more fuel to enter.

The solenoid valve bypasses the carburetor and injects fuel directly to inrich the mix for a cold start. If it malfunctions, the fuel will just run.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Thank you for all the quick replies! Whats a quick way to check the syphon valve? Could I simply try blowing through the fuel lines back to the tank and see if it is restricted. My filter is coming back extremly clean with only a little bit of water. Im going to to try the carb rebuild this weekend.

Also i noticed that, the plug on my vro pump was cracked with was probly sucking air so im going to pick up one tomorow. And I also noticed that the secondary inline filter under the hood was drained back down into the ball when i went back out to put the hood on. And lastly that same filter, i have tilted slightly up ward in the direction of the fuel flow and i noticed that air seems to pocket there even when i prime it up fully. Should I do away with this filter? Or maybe try a different filter that is better for inline use. The filter im using i believe is made more for a vertical usage i believe.


Im also going to pickup a new ball AGAIN and try it one more time. As well as maybe try getting rid of that filter for now and seeing how that works. And Im going to get rebuild kits for the carbs and go from there im just not sure about how many turns im going to need for setting the jets back in and ect. I have a book but its not all that detailed in that department.

Thanks again guys.

Frank Wood
Pennsville NJ

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

The anti-siphon valve is usually a stainless ball bearing with a spring. It is in the fitting at the top of the tank where you connect your fuel line. If the fuel lines and engine are all above that level, the valve is not required, so you can remove it by pushing it out of the fitting.

If you need to keep it, you have to test the valve by a procedure described in the factory service manual as part of the VRO2 test procedure. You will have to remove the fitting and use water and clear hose to determine that the anti-siphon valve will not allow 20 inches of water to pass through, and that it will allow pass through before reaching 25".

The oil tank has a filter for the oil, so that if you have a full sized water separating filter in line, the second filter at the engine is redundant.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Ezeke - thanks. tomorow im going to remove that inline filter and run a new peice of fuel hose. And as far as the oil goes my vro has been disabled. But i am using a napa gold seperator filter so that should catch just about everything coming through. I just tried looking up the primer solenoid no luck on a rebuild kit but i did find a new one for just under 100$ do you think it would be safe to take it apart and clean it and inspect it or would the seals and plunger become useless when i have to reassemble? I guess im really just trying to rule out the simple task befor i make any purchases. if theres anything i can actually take things apart and clean them up and put them back together obviously thats step one lol. but i have ordered my carb kits. i just really want to get this back on the water this year. it ran GREAT the first year i had it and then last year nothing and this year so far nothing.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I think the fuel-water filters are different for an outboard.They flow more than a regular filter.Maybe Ezeke or one of the pros can explain the difference.
I would be interested in that also...

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Your engine should have the plastic carb bowls. With age, these tend to warp at the mating surface, causing fuel to leak out between the bowls and carb body. Consider scrapping them and go back to the earlier cast aluminum. When you do go back, you will need to buy new jets, as your current ones will not fit in the new aluminum bowls. Also, you will need different bowl drain plugs.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

emdsapmgr - wouldnt it be more cost effective to just replace the plastic bowls? And I have never even seen aluminum available for my carbs.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

The new plastic bowls may also deform over time and you could be back to fuel leaks again. I've always replaced with the aluminum to permanently resolve the issue.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

... I just tried looking up the primer solenoid no luck on a rebuild kit but i did find a new one for just under 100$ do you think it would be safe to take it apart and clean it and inspect it or would the seals and plunger become useless when i have to reassemble? . .

The repair/upgrade part is mainly the red pointer and the o-ring that seals it in the top of the primer solenoid. It also has a capped fitting for introducing de-carbon fluid and fooging oil. Part number 175158.

 

[71Windsor]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Thanks again every one.

- emdsapmgr I cant seem to find those bowls any where. Im hoping the rebuild kits i ordered come with a new plastic bowl, now that i know more about that.

- And for the Primer Solenoid do you mean on the Red manual arm, the fitting that is located there? Becuase I have noticed that and assumed it was a manual relief valve. And when depressed and primed you will get plenty of fuel from there. Im guessing it could also work as a means of adding agents into that solenoid.

- If any one is familiar with the rebuild kits did they include bowls? And how bad where the jets to take out (how many turns) ect. Im familair with carbs but when you get some things that back out like 30 turns or so that can be a pain.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

The carburetor bowls are not part of the rebuild kits. The jets are removed with a special tool, which can be purchased from a dealership or made from a screwdriver. The carburetor bowls need to match the design for your year as some have a range of jets and some only have the high speed jets.

398544 seems to be the aluminum base for your series.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Am I missing something here? The primer ball goes flat ... that indicates something wrong on the suction side of the fuel pump, not a primer valve or carb problem. I would check the tank pickup for blockage, bad tank vent or anti-siphon valve or a dead cat in the fuel line. There's just no other places to look! If you can't find the anti-siphon valve or know how to check it, get someone who can before wasting a lot of time on non-productive things.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I think we are repeating ourselves here,but,have you tried a portable fuel tank ,that should eliminate any problems to the eng.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I thought that we had already covered the fact that the bulb going flat had to be caused by something on the fuel tank side of the bulb or the bulb itself, but maybe not. (See entry #5)

On the other hand it did make me look back and see that you were using a "napa gold filter". Is that a marine, gasoline filter?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I thought that we had already covered the fact that the bulb going flat had to be caused by something on the fuel tank side of the bulb or the bulb itself, but maybe not. (See entry #5)

On the other hand it did make me look back and see that you were using a "napa gold filter". Is that a marine, gasoline filter?

You're quite right ... BUT no indication any of those things were checked by Frank.

 

[borz170]

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

Re: 88 150vro - flat fuel ball - idle miss - long post

I had the same problem with a 1993 150 hp V6 60* Johnson. The problem was in the brass fitting that has a spring in it. This may be the anti syphon valve, like earlier mentioned. I replaced that and used a new black plastic hose clip and it was fine. I guess you don't even have to use these two fittings. You can just hook the fuel line to the tank, if it is below the engine...It's probably in the floor, right? Just secure the fuel line to the male fitting on the tank, with a hose clamp. As for the rest of the problems(carbs), see if this works, then when this fixes your problem with the bulb, we'll address the carbs...if necessary.