888/302 rebuild

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Just got back from the machine shop. Block will require a re-bore. Machinist didn't thing anything else was that bad. He looked at the cam and suggested I install a new one since it comes in the kit with new lifters. (only costs me $25 or so to leave the cam in the kit...)

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

If the cam with the kit is the same as yours go for it.

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

It's the 308/312. The guy I talked to thought it was the only one he could get. I'll as again when I order. Do you thing that cam would be usable if that is my only option, or should I keep looking?

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Northern Auto Parts-part #130052 Crain Energizer (lift int/exh .533" adv duration int/exh 282) 108 lobe seperation. Do yourself a favor and spend the money. The smallest amount of wear and you lose a lot of performance. Broke down on the water sucks so if you plan on cheeping your motor get yourself a good tow service and another hobbie while you are waiting on your boat to be fixed. With out a 4 banger carb and performer intake you will be slow as a snail anyway.

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

My goal all along has been to keep reliability with a minimum of stock performance. Any more power is welcome, but in my experience, it takes much power for minimal speed increase. This boat would run about 40 stock. If I can get back to there or a bit better I will be pleased. In the future, I may upgrade the intake and carb, but not today. If I get passed by a few go-fast boats, so be it. I want to relax. Heck, I'm not unhappy with the 16' runabout w/ 85hsp OB sitting beside the 19'. Just wanted something safer for those rough water days. I'm looking at the cam you recommended. The price doesn't bother me, I just want the best fit for the application. I'll send Crane a message and see what they recommend.

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

That crane cam sounds like a good one for what you are trying to do. Also I agree with fnscrn... without a 4bbl carb and better intake a bigger cam will not help you much if any. If you decide to go that way (new carb and cam) Eddlebrock makes a perfomer and performer plus set that works well. Cam and intake are matched to one annother. They also have a great tech support line that will be able to tell what cam/intake will go best on your motor and do what you want. Ofcourse this will be 250.00 to 300.00 bucks and will only give you 40-50 hp more tops. The week link in you moter is the valves. Small block fords (for the most part) have small valves. <br /><br />Sean

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Wow, I really feel over my head now.I would really like to hold off on the intake/carb until I see how I feel with stock performance, but I don't want to have to buy/install a new cam later. I also don't want to put too much power in this boat as 190hp is the most it came with even though it is 19'.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Dont let us scare you. I have had a couple stock motors that worked just fine but then came those dam jet skis. If you want to build a stock motor build a stock motor nothing wrong with that. A little cam upgrade wont hurt anything (may even improve a little). Like you said you can always do more later.I would do the 272 cam it wont changes things now much and your all set up for the intake and carb later on.Just keep it in mind there is a easy 75 to 100 hp there when you are ready. The "5.0" (how the kids refer to it) didnt get its rep by being a tame motor.

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Thanks F_in, I think I've caught my breath again. I was just getting a bit overwhenmed. I'm a computer geek, not an engine guy. This is my first attempt at a rebuild (i'm getting mucho help from a mechanic brother and another mechanic friend). My comfort level is to get back to stock with a little cam upgrade to prepare for possible later bolt ons. Now if I could just find out the difference between the 188 and the 225....<br /><br />I got a response back from Crane, they recommended the Powermax 363902.<br /><br />I may investigate going 4bbl over the winter when I have more time and know the motor is solid.

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Jason<br /><br />225 minus 188 equals 37<br /><br />I ain't evin got a kalkeylater

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

 

[almost retired again]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Hi Jason;<br />Here is my 2 cents worth. If you do decide to chang carbs make sure they are marine carbs. There is a liability problem here.

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Jason what 188 and 225 did you mean?

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Sean, as I understand it, the complete package was 888 but the engine by itself was called 188. I think I goofed and the 225 that Mercruiser made was a 351W, so I may be out of luck. I'm at the poing of dropping back 10 yards and punting. My 225 idea looks like it is out, so it may be time to find a good cam for the 302 and go forward as originally planned. So given that, guess I'm back to getting a cam that works well with my 2bbl. Here are my options from Northern-<br /><br />Speed Pro 1500-4000 RPM 280/290 dur .448/.472 lift 112 lobe sep <br /><br />Speed Pro 2000-4500 rpm 290/300 dur .472/.496 lift 112 lobe sep <br /><br />Speed Pro 308/316 lift all other unknown<br /><br />Crane Energizer Basic RPM 2000-5000<br />Adv Dur Int 272 Exh 272<br />Dur @ .050 Int 216 Exh 216<br />Deg Lobe Sep 110<br />Valve Lift Int .484 Exh .484 <br /><br />I know I must be making this more difficult than it needs to be, but I am a computer geek trying to pick a camshaft. It boggles my mind. Is there a consensus of which you guys would pick?

 

[DJ]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

jason,<br /><br />Yes, the 188 was a 302 and the 225 (sometimes called a 228) was a 351.

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

I would prob go with the crane cam. Or the 290/300<br />speed pro would do but I have never heard of them. Crane has been aroud for ever but the speed pro cam is a little more cam and would do well with a 4bbl later on. The crane would also.<br /><br />I am going to attempt to explain what all those numbers mean. If you already know or are not interested just ignore.<br /><br />also the last cam you listed is the duration spec not lift. (I think) Those numbers do not make sense for lift. Also that would be too much cam for what you want to do.<br /><br />First Lift:<br />Lift is measured thousandths (0.000) of an inch. The lift is the difference between the radius from centerline of the cam shaft to the heal or backside of the lobe and from centerline of the cam shaft to the top or highest point on the lobe. This is a measurement of how far the cam will "Lift" the push rod. The valve opens on the other side of the rocker arm. As the cam side goes up (lifts) the valve side goes down. Like a seesaw. More lift, the valve opens farther. Less Lift, the valve open less. <br /><br />Second is duration:<br />Dration is measured in degrees. Just like an an angle or a sector of a circle. A circle has 360 degrees. The amount the cam shaft turns or rotates (measured in degrees) from the time the lobe of the cam begins untill the lobe ends. Or you can think of it how much the cam rotates from the time the valve starts to open untill it is fully closed. This is how long (the Duration) that the valve is open.<br /><br />Lobe separation:<br />Is measured in degrees and is how far the cam rotates from the time the intake valve closes when the exhaust valve begins to open. The more duration a particular cam has the smaller the lobe separation must be. <br /><br />If the valves open wider and stay open longer the more fuel in and exhaust out they can move thru the cyl on each cycle. If can burn more fuel on each power stroke then you will have MORE POWER ARRR ARRR HARRGH.....<br /><br />This only holds true to a point. When trying to build a hot rod engine "There is no replacement for cubic displacement"<br /><br />Have fun <br /><br />Sean

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Thanks Sean, I really hate to be such a dunce on this, but I'm learning. I was leaning toward the Crane as I thought it would have the best idle. The Speed Pro's are from Federal Mogul. It's my understanding that if I go with teh Crane cam, I should also go with Crane lifters? Or will the Federals in the kit be fine?

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

If you can buy the crane cam w/o lifters the federals will do fine. Make sure the crane lifters are not "rhodes" type lifters that are perform different ant high and low rpm's. To make things simple I would try to get the rebuild kit w/o the cam and lifters completely. Either upgrade the oil pump from the kit to a high volume of delete it and find a High Vol elsewhere.<br />Upgrade the gaskets to felpro. Fedral has good parts so thier lifters will be fine but it is prob a crane set that comes with lifters. <br /><br />The reason I like the crane cam is not the idle. Both would idle fine. The crane has a broader rpm range and most people run a boat close to wide open throttle alot of the time. The crane looks better in the higer rpm range.

 

[jasonnb]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Sean, you are correct, the Crane for $77 is a kit including lifters. Looks like that cam will be my best bet and the $$ is still fairly low. Gotta love that. Leave me a few $$ for this winter to possibly look at a 4bbl.

 

[Saperry]

Re: 888/302 rebuild

Glad to help, <br />The only sound sweeter than a healty small block ford is when one of my kids says "daddy I love you".<br /><br />Sean