888 mercruiser won't start...

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

UPDATE:

OK, i put the spark plugs back in and tried to turn the motor on but it didn't work. The engine turns and turns but it doesn't do it at constant power. What i mean is that the pulley with the bolt will make a few good rotations and then it will stop. As if something is preventing it from turning with ease.

It seems when the pistons or cylinders (not sure which) gets to the top of the cycle it has a hard time doing it. I assume this because with the spark plugs in the motor, i try to turn the engine manually and it works, but after getting close to a full rotation it gets much harder to turn the pulley.

When i take the plugs out and turn the key the pulley turns without any problems. When i checked the plugs they did have a little oil on the them. (from the oil that i put in earlier).

I kept turning the key to 'pump' out the water with the spark plugs out. Nothing seems to be coming out of the holes anymore. I did notice that my battery is loosing power. I am going to charge my battery and going to try it again this afternoon or tomorrow. Ill keep you guys updated. Please help.

Thank you.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

You're on the right track...battery is key at this point. Until that rust is naturally honed away it will strain a little more. During the compression cycle is when the pistons see the most pressure, so it's normal that it appears to be straining then. Even on an engine that's in good condition, a weak battery will give the appearance that the engine is oscillating like you describe.

Have you checked the condition of your oil lately...since all of this began? In particular, the level. The water should be settling to the bottom, so you may want to drain a bit and have a look.

Good luck.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

sounds like you are still getting water into the cylinders. Did you pull the plugs again and try?

 

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

ErieRon, i did check the oil when this first started. I had a lot of milkshake in the oil pan. Thats when i flushed the entire system out and put in a new filter and new oil. When i checked it how i had a little sign of water in the oil but it was very little on the dip stick. The battery is charging as we speak.


Bruceb58, i did pull the plugs again and try it. The engine turns nice with ease but there is no water or anything coming out from the spark plug holes. I'm charging the battery right now and I am going to give it another try later on.

A friend of mine told me to burn the tips of my spark plugs to get them to dry? They are brand new spark plugs since the older ones had water on them when this problem started. These new ones have a little oil on them, which i wiped away, because of the oil that i put in the cylinders at the beginning of this post.

What is the next best thing for me to do? Charge my battery and try it again with the plugs in?

Thank you all.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

You can let it crank a couple revolutions with no water going to the manifolds just as a sanity check. Just let the hoses run into the bilge for your test. Running on muffs right?

As far as burning the spark plugs, why not just use a hair dryer or a heat gun for a minute?

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

I would try and get as much of the water out as possible...first. Like I said, it should be separating and settling in the bottom of the oil pan after sitting a while. Just crack the drain plug, if accessible and drain a little out...see if you're getting water. Then, yes, try it again...but only with a fully charged battery.

The plugs are not that big of a deal if they're dry now and not soaked in oil.

I think the most important thing now is get the battery fully charged and give it fighting chance to turn that bad boy over...

 

[rebars1]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Good news that you have freed up the engine and that the starter/solinoid work to crank it (w/o plugs in at least). Do you think you have solved the water intrusion problem yet? Have you been cranking the engine with the muffs and the hose on this whole time?

 

[mrflip2]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

When i first got my boat the engine was seized from lack of use. It sat for over 7 years. I removed the sparkplugs and put a little squirt of transmission oil into each cyl. I then let it sit for a day and using the bolt on the flywheel turned it over by hand. Like you said it took everything I could do to do so. I did this for 3 days in a row until i could move everything by hand. I then marked and removed distributor and one valve cover pumped up oil with drill watched until oil came thru unto the head. I then put everything back together to try and start the motor.
I had used this motor for 2 years before switching to a 351 and I still had 135 plus or minus 4 psi in all cyl I know a little low but it ran great just could not pass up the 351. I wish you the best of luck remember patience is the key. It might take two or three days but take your time. worst comes to worst you have to take it out during winter. good luck

 

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Buceb58, I asked him to use a hair dryer and he said that it?s better to burn them. I don?t really think that the problem is with the plugs. The new ones were not wet form water but a little wet from the oil that I put in (which I dried out).

Erie Ron, I believe that there is water at the bottom of the oil pan but I don?t know if my engine (Ford 302) has an oil plug at the bottom of it. I will check and if it does ill drain some out from the bottom. The battery is still charging. Yes, it?s not the world?s bets battery charger, but it does the job? just takes a while.

Rebars1, yes I have solved the water intrusion problem. It was a bad gasket that connects the exhaust manifold with the exhaust elbow. I changed both sides just to be safe. The problem does not exist anymore. No, I have not been cranking the engine with muffs on and the hose on. My plan was to at least hear the engine turn over and quickly turn it off (3 seconds or so). Then I would connect the muffs with the hose and let her run until normal temp. Good or bad plan?

I think that for now, I?m going to let the battery charge FULLY. Then I?m going to put the plugs back in and give it a shot. I hope she turns over. Either way, I?ll be back to report to you guys. Thank you for all the help.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Right...patience is a virtue, eh. Let that battery charge as long as it needs. If you can't drain it, pump some out through the dip stick tube. You really want to get all of the water out. And, don't run it too long without the muffs...I wouldn't run it without muffs at all if it were me.

 

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

UPDATE: I charged the battery completely and hooked it up. I put the spark plugs in and tried turning on the engine. The engine turn and turns with great speed, but it does not want to turn on! I checked if I?m getting fuel to the carburetor and I am. I checked my points for corrosion along with the rotor and I AM getting sparks to the spark plugs (only checked 3 not all). I also let out all the oil (through the bottom of the oil pan, like you said Erieron) and flushed the system out again since it had a little water sitting at the bottom of the oil pan. I have no idea why the engine is not turning on? I have a feeling that the oil that I put into the cylinders the other day is the problem now. I didn?t put a lot but every time I pull the plugs they have a little oil on them. Not too much. Maybe this is causing them not to throw the sparks. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you all.

 

[rebars1]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Good news that you've got the engine cranking. Have you done a compression test yet? Try checking that you are getting spark.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

So far, so good. Good job. You need spark, fuel and compression, all at the proper time to start you engine, so you're on the right track with what you're checking. Here's a link to troubleshoot the spark (about 1/3 way down the page);

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=335407

Have you ever done a compression test? You seem to be ignoring it. Especially now that you had rust in your cylinders it is important to verify it. It's really very easy, and the tester is cheap.

The oil on the plugs could be an issue in firing if it is heavy. It could be residual from you pouring it in, or from worn rings. Did you oil smell like gas when you drained it?

I think you should do a compression test, verify spark according to the step by step, verify fuel at the carb and if all is good, keep cranking, pulling the plugs and drying them, and eventually she's going to fire up.

 

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Rebars1, I did not do a compression test yet. I have never done one in my life. I bought the tools from Auto Parts. (Here is a link to a picture of the one I got: picture) That?s the one I got for $30 but not from Sears. Any help and tips on that would be great!

ErieRon, thank you for all the help so far. I looked at the link you provided and it?s great. I will not have time to work on the boat until this Saturday, so progress will be slow. But I will surely follow the step by step procedures that are on the link and ill make sure to keep all of you updated on the results.
I have never done a compression test. I must have misunderstood the process since I always thought that I needed to warm the engine up and then turn it off and then run a compression test. That is why I have never done it. Like I mentioned above I did buy a compression tester from Auto Parts. Now all I need is some help on how to do it. Is there anything special that I need to do? Ill researches it to get a better understanding of it.
It?s funny that you mention the oil smelling like gas. I could?ve sworn that the last time I took the plugs out they smelled a little like gas. Is this a sign of something? I?ll smell my dipstick to see if it has a scent of gas.
I also feel that I might have pumped a little too much gas into the carb because of all the times that I tried to start it. Could that be an issue?

I will not have time to work on the boat for a few days so please be patient and thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

SeaVue;

Below is a link to a Mercruiser service bulletin on compression testing. It's really very simple, and easier with two people just so you know. Ideally the engine should be at operating temperature, but even with out, it will tell you if there are any catastrophic problems. Once you get the old beast running again, you can do it again at operating temp.

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/97/97_25.pdf

I have also attached the section from Service Manual #2 on compression testing; Never done an attachment, so I hope it works.

As far as the gas smell...it would be typical to smell gas on the plugs with what you have been doing. When your oil smells like gas, sometimes it is a sign that your piston rings are worn, and is most noticeable after flooding your engine. All of which are applicable to your ongoing endeavor. It doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world, just another investigative tool to see what condition your engine is in.

The fuel in the carb shouldn't be an issue. It usually evaporates over time after being flooded.

BTW: Your compression tester is perfect...same one I have.

Did you download your manual yet?...; http://www.4shared.com/file/116480357/2650579f/mercuiser2_73-79.html

Good luck & keep us posted.

 

[SeaVue]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

ErieRon,

I finally found some time away from work and tried turning the boat on again. Same thing as usual: the engine turns and turns full of life but nothing else happens. Gas is good and so is the spark to the plugs?

I did manage to do a compression test. I did the first test without adding oil into the cylinder and then I did the second test with a little oil added to the cylinders (the manual said to add some oil if the reading was low). Here are the results by the cylinder number:

1. 100 (no oil) and 125 (w/oil)

2. 80 (no oil) and 110 (w/oil)

3. 110 (no oil) and 125 (w/oil)

4. 105 (no oil) and 135 (w/oil)

5. 60 (no oil) and 75 (w/oil)

6. 65 (no oil) and 85 (w/oil)

7. 75 (no oil) and 90 (w/oil)

8. 75 (no oil) 85 (w/oil)

As you can see one side (port) of the engine is low on compression. That is the side that had the water in the plugs.

I do have the manual and I am not sure what to do next? Any help would be greatly appreciated and thank you for all the help so far.

 

[ErieRon]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

Well, as for the compression test; Since the compression increased after adding oil, but did not reach normal psi, it indicates that your rings may be worn. If the compression readings do not increase after adding oil, it indicates that you have a problem with your valves sticking or not seating properly...usually.

Your low numbers seem really low I honestly don't know if they are low enough to prevent the engine from turning over and firing. I would think it would at least try, and maybe start, but run poorly.

Unfortunately, with all of your trouble, and your explanation of the whole process, I think there is something more serious going on internally. And, unfortunately as well, I am not knowledgeable enough on the internals to be much more help. If you downloaded Manual #2, look at section/page 10-3. It's a troubleshooting flow chart of water leaking into the engine, possible causes etc...you'll see what I mean.

You might want to start a new thread that focuses on those compression numbers. I would give a brief explanation of what happened in the beginning, copy and paste this thread as reference to the whole story, and see if someone can make sense of those numbers and your next probable step. There a are a bunch of guys on here that can help you better than me at this point.

BTW; What exactly is it doing when you crankk it? Can you be more specific?

Best of luck. I'll keep reading and jump in when I think I can help.

 

[matt 57]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

I have the same engine on the boat I recently bought.
Your compression numbers are really low and the bad thing is that you don't know what they where before all that happened...I'd do compression test every season to get a general idea of the condition of the engine.
I don't believe the compression has dropped significantly after you had some water in cylinders. However, if the engine got hydrolocked at high rpm you might have a real big problem.
I was suggested to try Marvel Mystery Oil to recondition cylinders, but my case is different, I have just one cyl low.
In your case it might help. But patience is the key. Google it and have some reading, go to their home page and look for FAQ section, they have all instructions how to use it. I know people use it with success.
Starting the engine after adding oil on the top of the pistons won't cause any problem. Just let it sit for a while, crank with plugs out, put them back and it should start if there is no other problem.
Another lesson learned the hard way about replacing gaskets with new ones.
We learn them every day.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

You should still be able to get the engine started. Generally, you want to do a compression check on a warm engine.

 

[matt 57]

Re: 888 mercruiser won't start...

A friend of mine told me to burn the tips of my spark plugs to get them to dry?

I used to do this starting engines all covered with ice with a lot of condesation in cams when it was -20C outside, it did help (burnet then screwed them right in). But in Florida...with new plugs... makes no sense to me. Won't harm however.