89 60 horse kicking

008wagon

Seaman
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
i still am having issues with my 1989 johnson 60 horse it is kicking at full throttle .it acts as if i am losing all spark for a spilt second and then comes back , when it happens the motor kicks very violentely. i have replaced the power pack and all three coils . checked high speed jets also. it runs great all other speeds and it does not always do this at full throttle its seems that i lose all power. is it possible the timer base or stator is going out? any ideas? thanks in advance
 

Sixmark

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 11, 2010
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890
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

First you say it does this at full throttle, then you say it doesn't always do it at full throttle.......so are we to assume that it does it only at full throttle but not every time? Do you know if it is cooling properly, getting electronics extremely hot can cause them not to work properly.

It's possible it could be a stator or timer base issue, but it's also possible that it could be something else.

Did you try squeezing the fuel bulb when it acts up to see if the problem goes away?
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

when it happens it is always at full throttle . it does not do it all the time though. i tried squezzing the fuel bulb with no help. there is also a fluid leaking on drivers side of the engine. it is yellow ish honey colored. i pre mix so if it was gas it would be blue i would think. is this a failing stator? the block is cool to the touch after 20 minites at full throttle.
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
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Re: 89 60 horse kicking

also as some more info i did not have this problem until my motor would not run at all i had the power pack replaced and that solved the problem of it not running at all but after that it devolped this miss/kick , could some other electricial part have been damaged ? i also tried another brand new power pack but it did not help either . i am about ready to give up on this thing and put it in the weeds.
 

Sixmark

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Re: 89 60 horse kicking

If possible get a picture of the substance you are seeing that is leaking, usually it tends to be green/blue looking but could be a different color depending on year/manufactuer of stator.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

You say "it kicks very violently". Does this mean that it seems like the engine is hitting some submerged object? If so, read on.................

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.

If you've had the lower unit off for any reason, and turned the shift rod out of adjustment, therein lies your problem. The shift rod adjustment from the top surface of the lower unit (in neutral) to the center of the shift rod hole is critical and unforgiving.
 

Big flop

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
290
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

Use a timing light to see if spark goes away when it misses.
Normally stator goo will cool off and get hard?
Stator, key switch, kill switch harness timer base could
cause intermittent problem.
If it is jumping out of gear you'll get a hard bang.
 

008wagon

Seaman
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

i does not make a banging noise or any noise when it does it. the motor does kick up like you have hit something but there is no noise. it just loses all power for a spilt second then comes back very quick. the lower unit was rebuilt in august of 2010 then the power pack went out in septmber and after that all these troubles began. the other night when fishing it started to do it at half and 3/4 throttle to but quit . when it does this the motor jumps up and loses all power rpms drop for a split second and then come right back . i am some lost and broke chasing this problem
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

Sounds like it's jumping out of gear to me. What else whould cause the engine to lift out of the water, then go right back again. Hopefully you can correct the problem by centering the shift cable as follows. If not, you're faced with lower unit repairs.

When the engine jumps out of gear for that split second, the water pressure rushing against the forward portion of the lower unit causes the engine to raise up. The unit immediately jumps back into forward gear with the result being that it once again lowers into the water..... and the cycle repeats continuously.


(Centering Shift Cable)
(J. Reeves)

When all is as it should be, the proper method to adjust the shift cable is to disconnect the cable from the engine. Move the shift linkage on the engine to find the center of the play in neutral, and when found, leave it centered.

Now, grab the end of the shift cable sleeve, push and pull it to find the center of the play there, and center that play.

Adjust the trunion on the threaded portion of the shift cable so that the centered play of the cable lines up with the centered play of the engine's shift linkage. Install and lock the shift cable with the retaining clamp in that position. That's it.
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

would it jump out of gear at 1/4 ,1/2 and 3/4 throttle also ?
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
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Re: 89 60 horse kicking

joe reeves would i get any noise if it was slipping out of gear?
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

if the new gears that are in there broke in could the shifter cable need readjusted causing this?
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

Yes, it would make a noise when the shifter dog jumps from one gear lobe to the next. It would sound like and feel like you hit something underwater.

The engine rpms would not drop such as losing ignition for a couple seconds or running out of gas. In all my years of experience, I have never encountered such a problem anyhow. My experience is that if a engine lost ignition or lost its fuel supply, the engine either dropped power and stayed that way... or stopped running altogether.

Engines do not slip out of gear, they jump out of and back into with great force. Propeller can slip a hub however and when they do, they continue to do so when throttle is applied... usually/normally slipping only at a high rpm. To check this, simply scribe a mark on the prop nut and also on the propeller, both marks being in line. Now, run the engine and when this problem takes place, check those scribe marks. If they've moved, the prop needs re-hubbing or replacing.

I've never seen an electric miss cause the engine to raise up.

Normally a engine would not jump out of gear at anything less than a high rpm.... when a great amount of pressure is being applied to the dog/gear shifter lobes.

Did you check and (if needed), center the shift cable? Was it centered to begin with?
 

Sixmark

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
890
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

Joe you know I think the world of your wealth of knowledge, and I'm not challenging anything that you have said in regards to things to check, but I actually did run across an ignition issue that caused my 75 TLCRD to kick up, there was an instantaneous cutout re-fire situation.

Believe me it freaked me out because the last thing I wanted to be doing was taking apart my gearbox that weekend. I still spent alot of time working on it and it wound up being a bad powerpack. Being I have a background in electronics I just had to inspect the internals of the old PP. It turned out that due to heat issues the isolation packing had broken down inside the casing and helped create a cold solder joint on the elctronics.

I would have to guess that maybe %5 max would ever run into this issue but it is out there. The good thing is I that I fixed the old pack and have it as a spare if needed.

I would still like to see a picture of the leakage the OP had described as well.

To the OP I would follow Joes advice and check out the adjustments, if it is a gearbox/linkage issue then you could damage the gearbox by continuing to operate it this way. If everything checks out ok there then let us know and I will walk you through the steps I had to take to diagnose mine.
 

008wagon

Seaman
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
63
Re: 89 60 horse kicking

joe i checked the shift cable and it looked good to me. i drained the lower unit fluid and it was very metaliac looking lots of small metal flake in it. i took it back to the guy that rebuilt the lower unit . he is going to take it apart and make sure its ok and nothing is slipping if its ok then i guess its back to chasing the electricial gremlian. is it possible that the shift cable would be ok but still jump out of gear? bad clucth dog maybe?
 

008wagon

Seaman
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Mar 16, 2010
Messages
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Re: 89 60 horse kicking

should the shift rod be perfectly vertical? mine points back some is this normal?
 
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