89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I don't know, but if you have good spark, the motor should fire up. A yellow spark is an indication of weak spark. You want a blue spark with a good "snap" to it. What brand and what part number are the spark plugs?

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Believe it is not good to have the sparks not grounded, is it possible you have done a coil? others may have more info for you.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

The spark plugs are fairly new, I only used them for less than half hour and are the kind with a flat gap end. I'll take them off to see the brand and part number. I have another pair of brand new spark plugs.
I would like help with what I can test now that we know it was the sheared flywheel key that was damaged. What can I test if the spark plugs were not grounded while checking compression?

I have a brand new battery but after so much cranking I noticed my voltage in the battery was 11.89 so I charged the battery to 13.1.
What if my iddle screw is off?
Could I have an electrical / starting circuit problem but yet there is a yellow spark?
What can I test now?

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I included a picture of my timing marks at top dead center, how can I check the timing, could it be bad ? Could that be why it won't start or cough?

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Eddie, maybe I misunderstand you BUT 4 cranks!!! Do you mean 4 revolutions? That may not be enough to start it and you says you choke twice. You have to engage the choke all the time you engage the starter. Your engine does not have an enrichment valve, it has an choke butterfly.
Try to put a tablespoon of fuelmixture in the plugholes then try to start it.

BTW: When you change the flywheelkey, you first maybe have to lap the cranktap with carborundum to get the surface clean and smooth. Then torque the flywheelnut to proper value.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Just 4 revs might not be enough.
I don't usually suggest this,try a bit of starting fluid or a bit of premix right in the plug hole.
Starting fluid's better.Just don't use too much.
You using the choke?(had to ask)
That bit of wear in the keyway shouldn't make that much difference.
The plugs are Permagap plugs UL-18V Or BUHK(I think)

Idle screw might be off but it still would fire.

When I first started running new motors for the dealership I worked at.
We didn't ground the plugs and never blew the packs.(wouldn't do it now)
So you probably didn't hurt anything.
Snap On has better sparkies.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

My timing adjusting rod's lock nut was lose, yet the other end of the rod has been glued to the plastic tip, it could not have moved!

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Nordin - what do you mean by this? -"first maybe have to lap the cranktap with carborundum to get the surface clean and smooth."
-- Do you mean to clean the hole where the key is inserted on the crankshaft? If so, what is carborundum? Then how will I hold the key on the crankshaft? I put anti seize cream on it to hold it.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Jerry-- when I say 4 cranks - I mean I held the key and cranked the motor for about 5 seconds each time. Twice with the choke on and twice without. I was told here not to use it every time cuz it will flood the motor.
Also I only did it 4 times cuz I was afraid of causing damage to the motor if the F/W key is damaged or to the the F/W it self or the crank shaft.
--- so do I add starting fluid to the cylinder by first removing each plug? Or do I do the starting fluid into the carb it self as I crank it?
-- confirming-- add 1 table spoon not 1 tea spoon of mixed fuel to each cylinder correct???
--- Jerry --- any other tests I can perform?
Should I just remove the head gasket and look in there to see what I find?? Then replace the gasket????
If I buy and replace the head alone with a 4% leak down test result head, would that be a good idea??

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

First I have correct me. I mean a tea spoon not table spoon. Sorry about that.
Second, if there are groves or fretting at the taper of the crankshaft and at the flywheel taper you have to lap the surface.
You use valve grinding compound (Carborundum) when you lap.
Apply light coating of valve grinding compound at the taper. Install flywheel (without key of course) on crankshaft.
Rotate flywheel back and forth about 1/4 turn but not spin the wheel completely around.
Rotate flywheel 90 dgr. and repeat same operation again.
Do like this a couple of times (2-3) then wipe the compound of the crank and flywheel taper.
Check the surface and it shall be smooth.

This operation (laping) is for making the taper surface between the crank and wheel smooth and it makes the fitting tight and strong so the key do not share.
Then torque the nut to proper value.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Sounds confusing a bit. To me. But I just new to read it over till I get it. As far as everything else I wrote, what are your thoughts?

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Ok the spark plugs I have on now are BUHX made by NGK and the brand new extra ones are made by champion they read 837 - L20V.
--- I charged my battery ( it reads 13.30 volts) and I will pickup my new F/W key today and install it and proceed with what ever instructions you guys give me.
Could I have a starting system problem even if I get a spark?
Could my timing be way off? Did anyone look at my pictures on it and read about the time adjusting arm having glue?
What tests can I perform now?
I will add a teaspoon of fuel to each cylinder and try to start it

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Spray starting fluid in the carb.
Holding in the choke till it fires or coughs not once in a while..
It's meant to flood the cylinders with extra gas.
If your compression is good,no reason to remove the head.
Any water on the plugs?
No? Then pulling the head will only waste $
Once you install the new key after you lap the taper.
Then do the spray.
You positive you have spark?
Do the old hold the plug against the block and turn it over.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Question - ""grinding compound (Carborundum) when you lap."" Must I use this stuff? It seems like what I need to do is sand it up right??? Can I just use sand paper and sand both up? The shaft and the inside if the flywheel? How do you guys recommend I hold the key in place? I used anti seize. Maybe I put too much.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

Do I put the flywheel on first and then slide in the key??? Or what I did? To put enough anti seize cream on the shaft to hold it?

 

[Nordin]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

NO, not sand it with sand paper. Use grinding compound!!!! This is the only right way to go. The surfaces shall match each other, you shall lap them to make a good smooth surface. This operation make the surfaces matching and it will make them holding the flywheel in place after torque to proper value.

Remember, the purpose of the key is only for positioning the flywheel to the crankshaft. The taper at crankshaft and flywheel is the join to keep the flywheel in place to the crank. The nut is for pressing the wheel to the crankshaft making the join by the tapers.
If the tapers is good and you put in a new key and torque to proper value and this is the most imported thing, it will stay in place.

Do NOT use any anti seize on the taper. It shall be dry and Clean. The key will stay in place by it self because you will need to use a little bit of force to put it in the grove at the shaft.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle


Got my FlyWheel key, got the valve grinding compound and got me a timing light.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle

I never use anti sieze on the flywheel key.
You don't need any lube on this part.
Lap the taper and make sure the compound is all cleaned off.
Then with DRY/CLEAN components put the key in and mount the flywheel.
Make sure the new key fits in the crank and the flywheel slot.
You might need to clean up the edges.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle


These are the before I lap pictures.
I tried the key on the shaft and it does bit fit snug and does not stay on by itself. It fits better than the old one obviously but how do I make it stay when I clean it off and re-install the flywheel to prevent it from moving or getting damaged again???

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: 89 force 50 HP how to adjust new float with new needle


These are the after lapping pictures. I did it 3 times. Added the compound to both and I put the flywheel on it with no key and I moved the wheel back and forth grinding and cleaned it up and then I did the groove where the key goes on the wheel and on the shaft also one time.
I know it's not perfect but I doubt I should take it to a machine shop for machine lapping due to the wheel losing it's grip.
Question. Any test I can do before I put the wheel back on?
How does it look to you guys and any suggestions before I proceed?