89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I thought I would post a few pics of my fiberglass progress on the stringers. It's definitely coming along. If it weren't for my real job, I could get more done. Lol. If that was the case, then this would be my job. Well I haven't glassed the wooden deck mounting blocks yet, but I've just about gotten all layers of glass over the stringers. I started with the csm, then went to the woven, then finishing up with csm again to smooth it out.

It's kinda hard for me to tell which layer I'm on in these pics, but it's really just so you can see.
Here
I think I'm at various stages in these pics. I did stringers, then bulkheads, then stringers again. So one pic might have just csm on the bulkheads, while the stringers have csm and the layer of woven. I'm pretty happy with the results so far. I'll try and post afew more pics tomorrow. Let me know what y'all think.

Matt

 

[Struc]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Absolutely beautiful!

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Thanks Struc!! I believe I'm beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel. It's very faint, but there...

Matt

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Here's a couple more pics of the stringers, bulkheads, and cross sections that I think you'll enjoy. Many people have commented on the thinness of my stringers, so I'm posting this pic of the thickness after glassing. It's right at 3/4" with csm, woven, then csm again.

It seems to me that this is plenty thick!!
And here's a couple pics of me sizing the csm to fit the stringers. Pre cutting is kind of a pain(as opposed to ripping as you go), but it makes laying it down so much easier. I typically will slop an even layer of resin down and smear it all over the area I'm glassing. Then I lay the glass, and start resin smoothing the top. It soaks it in quicker this way, and it sticks much better. If your doing a section like the stringer and bulkheads, it's best to do one side at a time. The reason is that if you start putting resin on both sides it tends to tent on the top of the glassed object. It'll be this eternal bubbly area on top that you won't be able to smooth out. Take your resin laying tool, and slop the top area, and the top of the opposite side your doing. Then work your side all the way down till it's all wet out. Then proceed to the opposite side, gently working it down, keeping a slight tension on the glass downward as you wet the other side completely down. It's hard to explain. Practice makes perfect.

Preparation is the key to glassing correctly imo.

Matt

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I thought I would post my recent thoughts and actions. I decided that the walk through area needed some sort of support other than just the plywood that sits on top of the stringers. The rest of the boat obviously has bulkheads that support the deck perpendicular to the stringers. But I can't add another bulkhead under the walkway if I want to utilize that area as my ski locker. So,I decided to make a sort of arch bar with some more nida bond. I have 2.5 gallons of nida bond left over that I won't be needing. The arch bar looks like |_/--------------\_|

Attached a horrible drawing of what I'm talking about. It's not the entire height of the stringer though.
This basically sits level with the stringers directly under the edge of the wall through. I'll just glass it in. It should give the deck that extra "bulkhead like strength" that it needs! I'll post pictures of my results on this later.

Matt

 

[laytondavenport]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I'm glad that my 170 looks nothing like these fancier boats. the only part of mine that seem to touch down is the rear sump and the conseole which is removal able. the storage seems to be built like cabinets.

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I finally have some time to post a couple pics of the arch bar that I'm creating under the walk through. So, I made the mould for the nida bond exactly the same as my other moulds. Cut cardboard.....lined it with wax paper, stapled it, held it evenly apart with tiny blocks of wood. I then just taped it to the stringers and filled it with the goo.

It was pretty easy to get it filled. I wasted a small amount of nida bond, over estimating the amount of fill. I took the cardboard off this afternoon, to find a perfectly accomplished arch bar.

I'm very happy. It'll be a great addition once glassed in.

And it should be super effective in supporting the deck and walk through area without forfeiting my ski locker storage.
What do you think?

Matt

 

[TimmyK2178]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Matt,
Keep up the good work. The boat is gonna be great when you are finished. I have an 89 freedom 170 with a 2.3 L motor that I just replaced the stringers on but I haven't reinstalled the motor mounts yet. Can you do me a favor and measure the distance from the transom for each one? Your help would be greatly appreciated. I too had to cut-out about the bottom 6" of the transom and replace because of rot.

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

No prob. I'll try and get a measurement tomorrow. Hey, how did you replace that small section of transom? Peanut butter mixture?

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I just got some free time to post a few pics of the fiber glass work on the new arch bar under the walk through. I've actually gotten to the point of laying a second topical layer (didn't wrap it around) of the woven roving for strength. This arch was much to small to get the thicker glass to conform to it, and get it to stay. So, I basically just cut the face of the arch out in woven, and stuck it to the front. I'll likely also put one on the back side. For added strength, I'll just do multiple layers of csm since it's so difficult to lay the woven roving like I want to.

It was also difficult to get the bottom part of the csm to stick. But this has been pretty typical in such a small area, especially on the smooth nida bond. I usually try to rough the nida bond up a little....
I just ground that hanging csm off, and proceeded with the second layer, and the above woven that I was talking about. I try and get a couple more recent pics.
TimmyK2178,
here's the pic of the motor mounts with measuring tape next to it that you asked about. The measuring tape is butted against the far back wall of the transom. (not from the added board that thickens the transom)

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

So, as I posted in a few previous posts, I was planning on glassing some wooden blocks to the sides of the stringers to screw the deck to. I didn't want to screw into the nida bond stringers, and I was unsure just how well it would hold screws. Even though the website says it works well. Anyways... I made some trapezoidal sized wooden blocks out of treated wood. I rounded them on all the edges that I thought would make it easier to glass. I kinda tapered the wood to the front of the block to reduce the angles to make it easier to glass.

Here's a picture next to a cardboard box to show how I plan on attaching them.

Here they are attached to the stringers with a dab of resin, before they got glassed.

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

After I glassed my wooden blocks in, I did a final sand down in the ski locker and gas tank storage area. You can probably get a look at the trapezoid blocks glassed in these pics also.

I hope to start working on the foam under the deck, and the deck itself...
I have a question....I've searched and can't really find anything. Is there anything I have to treat the deck wood with before i glass it??? Or simply resin/glass it.... It seems that I remember somewhere on someone's thread that they treated their wood before glassing it, but I think it might have been regular interior wood. Anyone?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I made some trapezoidal sized wooden blocks out of tarred wood.

?? Tarred wood? It doesn't look like hardwood blocks but what kind of wooden blocks?

Is there anything I have to treat the deck wood with before i glass it??? Or simply resin/glass it.... It seems that I remember somewhere on someone's thread that they treated their wood before glassing it

Roll the polyester resin out on the plywood, let it tack off, 10-15min at 1.5% MEKP & 80F +/-. Once it's tacked off, roll resin out again & apply a layer of glass (CSM). Fully wet out the CSM. Once layer of CSM on all sides & edges of the deck ply before it goes in the boat. Then once installed you can tab the deck to the hull and do another layer of CSM, going up & past the tabbing on the hull, on the whole deck.

I think that's all covered in WOG's graphic:
"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I corrected that spelling error..... It's just "treated" solid wood.
I understand the process of glassing wood. I've done my fair share of it over the last year rebuilding this boat.
Some sort of liquid pre-treatmeant to the plywood is what I was referring to. I know this sounds crazy, but I thought I read it somewhere to extend the life of the wood. Let it soak up, then glass over the outside. Maybe this was for folks using non-marine wood. Not sure...Maybe I made it up. Guess I'll just glass like normal

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

No idea what or where you'd read that, but post it up if it comes to you..........

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

I just wanted to post an update on my boat progress. I've got too many irons in the fire, and I just can't seem to get one project done. Anyways, I took some cardboard and layed it out in the front of the boat in order to get an idea of the piece of wood I'd be cutting out. I started off with the center piece, and I ended up adding the wings on the sides, trimming a little away at a time for a perfect fit. Here's the carboard trial.

So, I matched it up to a piece of my marine plywood, and I began cutting. Sorry, don'd have any cut pictures on me. I've got some post-glassing pictures that I'll post later.
.
I know this looks like an odd place to make a "break" in the deck, but I considered running it back further, however the width of the plywood wouldn't accomodate the width of the boat. So, I figured this was the best solution. An area only 10-12" will be butted, and glassed, But it'll be pretty strong considering its right over a stringer. There's an extended piece of the "triangle" board that you can't see, that will have a cut out section for the ski locker. I figured it would be easier to cut the door out of the actual hole......Then I shouldn't have any problems with it fitting correctly. The board glassed very nicely, but I had to grind a small amount of stringer down in the front, because it was too tall, and pushing the deck board to tight against the walkway. I couldn't push it as far forward as I needed then....

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Please advise on bottom joint glassing question at bottom.
As I stated in the last post, I had to grind a small area of the stringers in the front as they were forcing the deck board too close to the walkway. It was making it difficult to push the newly glassed deck as far as it needed to the front of the boat. So, I grinded the left and right side.

I just overgrinded, then glassed over the exposed area.
Here's a picture of the deck wood, all glassed up.

and here's a pic of the edges beveled to accomodate the change from a the curve of the hull to over the edge of the groove that the rest of the deck sits in.

I've made a rough paint drawing of how I plan on achieving the deck.

This looks crazy, but its the best idea after several thoughts about trying to make as few pieces as possible, while also making it strong in the areas that it needs it. The rear of the boat was an unacceptable area to have joints IMO, considering this was where people jump in the boat from the swim platform. I knew that the joints in the front would mostly be covered by the seat boxes (so this should add much strength), so It seemed that this was the best route. I considered turning the plywood sideways, but the cuts would have been three also, and in bad places....
It' hard to tell in the pics, but the area where deck piece 2 and 3 meet deck piece 1 has a very narrow area from the stringer to the hull, so it should be relatively strong. Likewise, the area of deck piece 2 and 3 that hang over the stringer to support the ski locker door is roughly only a 4.5-5" strip. Obviously I will glass these together very well.
There's just no way of achieving a one piece deck on large boats. i think....
? question: When I butt these pieces of wood together, I will have already glassed the ends of the boards, and I'll glass the tops once they're together, BUT what about the bottom of the joints??? I plan on having a bit of expanded foam under the deck...
any thoughts appreciated.

Matt

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Cleat your joints! Use a 4" piece of 3/4" Plywood and use PB to screw and glue the cleats to the bottom of the decking. Fill the seams with pb and then use strips of CSM to cover the seams. Sand and feather the edges of the CSM and the seams will be almost invisible.

 

[mbasonic]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Cleat your joints!

Thanks, Woodonglass!!
I don't know why I didn't think of that!! I'm sure that's pretty typical, but I was overlooking the obvious, maybe. I've just been thinking too hard about ALL my projects. This will actually give me an area to lay a small amount of resin down before I stick deck piece #2 and #3 down.
Other than that....I guess my picture of the deck layout doesn't look that crazy then??
The front part of the deck has overhang the stringers so I can have a ledge underneath the deck for the ski locker door to sit on, and the back of the deck has to sit right on top of the stringers because the gas tank is the same width as the stringers, and the access panel allows the tank to be removed if necessary. I'm going to have to have removable ledges for the gas tank access panel to sit on to accomodate the removable gas tank idea. I've glassed 2"x2" strips of wood that will be bolted through the stringers with tee-nuts on the back side. I've also got some pretty large fender washers that'll go over the ends of the tee-nuts, and on the bolts so it doesn't strain anything in too small of a square inch area. I'll try and glass over the edges on the back side for extra strength, and to prevent it from ever twisting loose. Hopefully I shouldn't ever need to remove the ledges to get the tank out, unless my tank completely goes bad.....
Here's what I'm trying to achieve....

Another one of my paint drawings Hopefully you get the idea.

Matt

 

[4Winns2]

Re: 89 Four Winns Freedom 170 Floor / Stringer Rebuild PICS

Yes I didn't pull the cap on mine but if I were to do it over the cap would have come off....My transom was solid so I just worked around the cap....

How do you have your boat braced up? What kind of trailer...roller?bunk? It is very important to make sure the hull doesn't flex out of shape with all the structure removed.

I wouldn't waste the $$$ on marine ply.... Go to your local lumber yard and ask for underlayment plywood....It has waterproof glue and no voids in the ply layers... It will be fine for your stringers,bulkheads and deck.

The woven you have will work but you will need CSM to put between the layers of woven.

On the Nida Bond.....it has it's uses but it's expensive.... I used it only for a motor mount repair and the end of a stringer at the bow...

Well, it looks like we can call all of us here the Four Winns resto club. Not to hijack mbasonic's thread but do you feel a bunk trailer- -mine is- - is enough support to hold the form of the boat in a stringer job?

Mbasonic, right there with you on this project. You can check out Rick's resto thread; I'm just underway with my project and his has given me great ideas for strategy and inspiration. My link to my project, with plenty of pics, is below in my sig.

Oops, didn't pay attention to the timeline on this thread- -you've been at it a while. Well anyways, good job and I'll be keeping an eye on your thread. The Nita bond is an approach I haven't considered yet.