89 johnson 15hp no spark

[EagleNuke]

I have a J15ELCEC that has just stopped producing spark on both cylinders. This is an engine that was working well for previous owner. However the electric start was not connected. I found the switch was bad, so I replaced it with a pushbutton swith from O'Reilly's for $10. Now the electric start works fine.

It was running intermitently for me then I noticed it was not getting any cooling flow. I pulled the lower off to check the impeller and found that the pin/key was not in place, so the impeller was not being turned at all by the shaft. The impeller itself seemed fine, so I renstalled it with the key inplace and also flushed water through the pump outlet to verify the flow path was clear.

So, when I tried to re-start to verify the flow, the engine did not start up. I checked and there is no spark on either cylinder. I wasn't sure that my tester was good, so I verified it on my lawnmower and it is good.

I saw the suggestions to disconnect the kill switch. Being new to outboards, I didnt see exactly how to do this. So, I disconnected the wires attached to the block that are each end of the circuit. (I now see where the connector is, but I'm pretty sure what I did was just as effective.) With the kill switch disconnected, there was still no spark to either cylinder.

So now I need some guidance on how to test the power pack assembly, the charge coil, and the stator assembly. I am really trying to keep the expenses down, so I only want to replace whatever actually is bad.

Any suggestions? Please include where to physically connect to take any measurements. I'm reasonably able mechanically and with basic electrical stuff, but like I said, I'm new to outboards, so please be gentle.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

Have a read through this and find your model, itl tell you where to take the readings. Normally i just put my multimeter pins into the socket that comes out from under the flywheel. I check the resistance readings as i dont have a dva.

CDI Electronics Practical Outboard Ignition Troubleshooting
If you were running hot without an impellor it may of shorted some wires by the cylinders

 

[kbait]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

Also.. running hot can cook the CDI box (been there).

And verify coil/cdi box ground wires.. clean and tight.

 

[EagleNuke]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

All the connections look good and clean. I tried cleaning the light corrosion from the magnets. Still no spark. I disconnected the starter motor just to make sure that wasn't causing any issues. Out of many pulls on the start cord, it actually sparked one time...of course I happened to be holding the wire when it did...Ouch!

I am thinking I will just replace the stator and power pack. That will cost about the same as the minimum charge for a shop to look at it. I know this could be an expensive route to take, but I am pretty sure it is all going to need replacing eventually anyway.

 

[kbait]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

I'd change the CDI box first. Very likely that's the culprit. As stated ^, you can test resistance of other ignition components to rule them out..

 

[AlTn]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

you've got the UFI < under flywheel ignition >, Eagle. It incorporates the timing sensor and powerpack into one unit located under the flywheel. If you'll go to a site that has parts diagrams < marineengine.com., shopevinrude.com, boats dot net, etc > you'll see this under the ignition parts. You'll note that kits are offered to relocate the powerpack externally along with a separate timing sensor that remains under the flywheel. The power coil is also under the flywheel and if it were mine I'd replace it at the same time.

On your electric start model the stator assm. only provides current for the battery so you could get it running and test the voltage output before considering having to test/ replace portions of the charging system.

 

[EagleNuke]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

Thanks for the response guys. I was thinking of replacing the power pack first, but the conversion kit sounds interesting. I'm not sure how to tell what to buy for that. I would sure appreciate pointers there.

I have been looking at the original replacements on **********. I see that I could replace all of the ignition parts for about $300. That includes the stator and rectifier along with new coil packs. If the stator and rectifier are only for the electric start/charge ( I didn't even realize that it charged the battery.)

This brings in a whole other problem, AlTn. When I installed the start switch, the previous owners had cut the wires out, so I only installed them as a straight +/- with the pushbutton inline on one side. This would not allow for charging and I wonder how it should be wired. I did notice on ********** diagram that the wire connector to the switch has 3 wires. If anyone has a wiring diagram I would really appreciate it.

I've been in and out of the components several times, but haven't had any luck trying to get the ohms. Maybe its my meter or maybe I'm just not too bright, but all I get is O.L on the meter or else it flashed rapidly changing values that aren't useful. Guess I need to figure out how to use the meter right first.

I really appreciate all the help.

 

[EagleNuke]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

That was boats dot net, didn't realize it would try to come up as a link. Sorry bout that.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

try putting your meter contacts together if its working right your ohmns will reduce to near on zero.
If its working put the testing cables into the little holes in the plug that comes out of the flywheel. Getting the holes matched up with the right coloured wires to test on CDI trouble shooter.
Did it ever work again after you put on the O Reilleys push button start?
Try putting a line of paint/ felt marker etc across the flywheel and top point of the crankshaft and nut, then try the starter, if that line is not straight anymore the flywheel key is broken.
Sounds weird that a motor that was going well for the previous owner had a impellor key out of place

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

I would of thought that the three way switch has the kill circuit on the other point than the +-

 

[AlTn]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

k...I'm terrible with reading electrical circuits...don't have a wiring diagram for a '89 electric start model...accept those and my interpretation from a 1990 tiller electric start...to the start button: 1. + lead from the battery 2. red wire from button to the lowest screw on the terminal block 3. from same point on the terminal block a red wire runs to the neutral safety start button 4. a red wire runs from the other side of the neutral safety starter button to the starter motor. 5. a red lead runs from the rectifier to the second position from the top on the terminal block, at this same position another red wire runs back to the starter button and appears to be connected internally with the + lead coming from the battery.

Scrolling down on the parts diagram page at marineengine.com..very bottom..1989 J/E outboard accessories..find the electrical start components page for the 9.9/15 hp...note the starter button assembly with 3 wires.

I'd try disconnecting the pp grounding wire at the connection from the stop button and check for spark again... no spark, move on to the components under the flywheel and replace as original or go the "modified" route, I'd suggest replacing the power coil as well. It's unlikely both external coils would fail at the same time. You might try replacing just the power coil first, but the liklihood is the pp w timing sensor component has failed.

 

[EagleNuke]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

It looks like this is the conversion kit "113-4488 - POWER PACK CD2 USL (NO LIMIT)" on marine engine dot com. Has anyone installed one of these?

I will probably get a chance to play with the meter tomorrow.

The flywheel key is good. I've had the flywheel off many times so I have looked at the key.

The motor did run after putting in the push button, it ran great for a short while. After I stopped it to fish with my trolling motor, it didn't want to restart. I thought maybe it was flooded or overheated. I was looking at the carb at the same time as checking out the water flow issue. During that whole evolution it had run several times, but after fixing the impeller was when it no longer got spark.

It is possible that the impeller key fell out when I disassembled it, but I don't think so. The guy I bought it from had told me the flow was weak and that I probably needed to replace the impeller. And I don't remember ever seeing flow. As I said, I'm new to outboards, so I didn't realize what the flow was supposed to be. Since then I've seen what it should be and I know that it was a trickle at best.

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

Thats good you have had the flywheel off as that can be a hard to do part.
In case you arent, when you do put the flywheel back on you really need to get it done with the correct torque otherwise when you are at speed you will need that trolling motor again, too little torque and you will break the flywheel key which keeps it timed, too much and you damage where it seats and itl wobble or worse.
If you have it off another time, check the insulation around the stator. Sometimes that goes from heat or just time and makes it short out.

If you find a bare patch ive had good results before from just epoxing over it so it wont short

 

[EagleNuke]

Re: 89 johnson 15hp no spark

update: Well I was kind of suspicious of my handy-dandy in-line spark tester...So, i decided to throw my 4hp Evinrude on the boat until I get parts for the 15. The 4 hasn't been started in over a year, so I decided to check it out with the spark tester.

Got it running with the tester in line....no spark showing on the tester...OK, back to square one on the 15. Figured out that I can start it with a shot of carb cleaner....seems spark is OK.

As it runs with spray of carb cleaner, but then dies, I have ordered a carb kit and a fuel pump kit.

I suppose that will be a good point to end this thread. Thank you all for your inputs, they were all valuable and appreciated. I have already learned quite a bit about taking care of this engine.