95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Set-up and explanation of the Flo-Torq II propeller...

If you have a standard Flo-Torq propeller, the principle with the thrust washer remains the same, and you should have no movement between the propeller and the propeller shaft.

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

just to clarify..there is no play between the hub and the shaft. the play is forward and back along the length of the shaft... here is a reply from mercury...i asked them to put it in writing to me...

Re: propping

Tim:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your Mercury motor, serial #0G193590. We appreciate this opportunity to respond to your concerns.

You inquired on the 1/8" forward and aft play in the new prop(Black Max part# 816706A45) that you purchased. That amount of play is normal and is expected. The play you are experiencing assists with the prop rattle. the prop also produces a "ratcheting sound" upon aggressive deceleration. Below I have included the instructions for the installation for the prop with the Flo-Torq hub kit. On page 4 it states "NOTE: A small amount of rotation play and forward aft play is normal.". I ralize that is under the Honda and Yamaha section but that applies to all applications. Hopefully, this email clears thing up for you. If you have further questions feel free to call us back.



We hope this information is helpful to you. Should you have any further questions or concerns, please contact our Customer Service department at 920-929-5040 between the hours of 7:30 a.m. and 5:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, CST.

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

he stated to me on the phone, but not in the email response that this fore and aft movement can be up to 1/4" and still be within the range that mercury deems acceptable.
do i trust merc? or make a shim to fill that gap?

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

I'm going to move this over to the prop forums, see if we can't elicit some more help from others...

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Hi Tim(?)

The ratcheting referred to is in the gearcase, not the propeller hub. The hub assembly should be 'solid'. I have fitted many of the Flo-Torq II propellers, and I have never had any with movement between the hub and the shaft. If the right thrust washer is used, the thrust washer, the brass sleeve, and Delrin sleeve and the propeller itself become 'one' with the shaft.

A common misunderstanding (understandable by anyone who has not pulled a gearcase apart) is that shifting engages and disengages the gears. It doesn't. The gears are ALWAYS engaged/meshed. What shifting moves is the dog clutch. The dog clutch is splined on the forward part of the propeller shaft, and slides along the shaft to lock into its receiving area just inside the actual teeth of either froward gear or the reverse gear.

I have found a cut-away of a gearcase, You can see the clutch moving on the shaft. The ratcheting is because the 'backside' face of a Mercury clutch is ramped (unfortunately the back side of OMC clutches are NOT ramped, so no ratcheting), and in an 'overrun' condition the clutch can slide up the back and click over....

Have a look at this....

Chris.....

I also found a nice picture of a Mercury dog...

Where did you get that picture of a "Mercury dog"? All the dogs I have seen have a square R engagement and you are cautioned about not moving the shift lever to R if the engine is not running or if the prop is not being manually rotated as you are attempting to engage R in the service manual. My manual goes on to show that on lower units, especially since the late '80's the R gear part of the dog has gone from a 3 post square engagement mechanism to a 6 post and the reason is increased reliability.

I don't know why I came back to this thread as I thoroughly discussed this several times and the poster just will not listen to reason. Since he has his mind made up and will not change it, why is he bothering us?

Achris what happened to your Bertram Avatar. I loved it.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Set-up and explanation of the Flo-Torq II propeller...

If you have a standard Flo-Torq propeller, the principle with the thrust washer remains the same, and you should have no movement between the propeller and the propeller shaft.

I noticed in this video that after you installed the hub, you rocked your hand back and forth indicating what I said previously that the hub has no inherent ratcheting mechanism and can't have or reverse gear would be useless.....the prop would spin on the shaft the whole time you were trying to back up.

....

Mark

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

I also found a nice picture of a Mercury dog...

Where did you get that picture of a "Mercury dog"? All the dogs I have seen have a square R engagement and you are cautioned about not moving the shift lever to R if the engine is not running or if the prop is not being manually rotated as you are attempting to engage R in the service manual. My manual goes on to show that on lower units, especially since the late '80's the R gear part of the dog has gone from a 3 post square engagement mechanism to a 6 post and the reason is increased reliability.

I don't know why I came back to this thread as I thoroughly discussed this several times and the poster just will not listen to reason. Since he has his mind made up and will not change it, why is he bothering us?

...what happened to your Bertram Avatar. I loved it.

Mark

I believe the 3 to 6 post change is for the 3 and 4 cylinder looper outboards. That dog in the picture is a Mercruiser stern drive dog. I was just throwing the picture up as an example of the ramped backside of the dog, not saying THIS is the one. It was as a contrast to the one in the video, with no ramping, front or back...

The Bertram picture is just in my signature line. Only comes up when I put my signature to a post (most of the time I leave it off to save space and load time)....

Chris.........

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

I noticed in this video that after you installed the hub, you rocked your hand back and forth indicating what I said previously that the hub has no inherent ratcheting mechanism and can't have or reverse gear would be useless.....the prop would spin on the shaft the whole time you were trying to back up.

Mark

That's right... The propeller and everything to the shaft should be all locked up... As I said earlier, ratchetting is done inside the gearcase...

Chris..........

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Sorry to bother you mark, but I suspect you live for this... All your answers have nothing to do with my question. The forward and backward play of the prop on the shaft. Merc says its fine, you talk about clutches in the lower unit. I have no problem there. I just want to know from somebody with experience if they have seen this kind of play that Merc is describing as an acceptable amount. You obviously know way more than mercury. They really dropped the ball by not hiring you. Looking for some objective input. You can quit following at any time. Nobody will mind.

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

he stated to me on the phone, but not in the email response that this fore and aft movement can be up to 1/4" and still be within the range that mercury deems acceptable.
do i trust merc? or make a shim to fill that gap?

Personally, I would not be happy with any movement between the propeller and the shaft... But if Mercury say it's ok, then I'm not going to argue (publicly), especially as you now have it in writing...

The only prop I have seen with movement on the shaft was a specially designed prop on a sailboat engine (Merc 9.9 'Sailmate')... The prop slide on the shaft about 3/4", to allow exhaust gas out so the prop was biting on solid water... But that's a special case...

Chris........

 

[carholme]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

Personally, I would not be happy with any movement between the propeller and the shaft... But if Mercury say it's ok, then I'm not going to argue (publicly), especially as you now have it in writing...

Tim;

The opinion by Chris above is what I said to you yesterday by email almost word for word. I appreciate that this leaves you in a position of difficult choice. Did Mercury say what the result would be if you did install a shim?

And by the way, you are welcome here as much as anybody else and have every right to ask questions.

Please let us know what avenue you take.

Gerry

 

[Fun Times]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

With the merc recommended prop and hub i have about 1/8" of movement fore and aft of the prop on the shaft. the shaft itself moves as it should. is there a way to shim that space with washers or spacers that will not negatively affect the operation?

There is a special way the new flow torque 2 systems are installed to help minimize what i'll call the normal fore and aft movement on some models.

just got off the phone with mercury. took some doing to find that #, but got news... apparently the design of the new flo-torq hubs allow for up to 1/4" movement fore and aft on the shaft. they say that is normal and a part of the design of the hub. supposed to ratchet when decelerating to make rapid deceleration easier on passengers. i dont understand how it is supposed to ratchet without stripping the gears, but i will just assume merc knows more than i do about their product. we shall see.

With the new system, they are correct.

nut is torqued until the plastic prop wrench stripped. that connection is at least 55 ft lbs. i am gonna go with the advice from merc, no offense. i am sure you are well versed in boats, but we went throught my engines serial number and all the parts numbers of the prop and hub and they assured me that the new hubs are designed that way. i even called twice to get the same info from a second operator. if they are wrong it will be on them. they say the two piece hub is made to ratchet down on deceleration. have you used a new flow torq hub?

You will be fine with their advice. The first video below is a small introduction of the new flow torque 2 system while the second video is a step by step of how to install the prop with the Flo-Torq Reflex Hub while at the same time one of the main Mercury designers that helped developed the Flo-Torq Reflex Hub talks a little bit of how the design works.

Mercury Marine Prop Hubs Protect Your Outboard - Season #7 - YouTube

Flo-Torq Reflex Hub Installation - YouTube

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

fun times. thanks. i am finally not afraid to put this prop in the water. its about 30 degrees this morning, so it wont be today, but i will give a report when it has several hours on it. thanks guys.

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

fun times. thanks. i am finally not afraid to put this prop in the water. its about 30 degrees this morning, so it wont be today, but i will give a report when it has several hours on it. thanks guys.

We had a beautiful 28 degrees today. 27 tomorrow, and I'm going diving!!!

 

[Fun Times]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

We had a beautiful 28 degrees today. 27 tomorrow, and I'm going diving!!!

Sounds like it will be a bit warmer once you get in the water. Be safe.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

We had a beautiful 28 degrees today. 27 tomorrow, and I'm going diving!!!

LOL ur 27 is our 80

 

[achris]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

LOL ur 27 is our 80

 

[acmetim]

Re: 95 mercury 60 hp 2 stroke prop play

yeah, by the end of winter 30 wont feel bad to me, but right now it feels like death. southern sissy, me.

 

[foleyba4]

Do you still have this outboard motor. I have linkage problems with my 1995 60hp. Cant get the the fast idle stops to bottom when I shift as far forward as I can. The timing cover was missing so I just bought one. Also the fast idle screw was totally missing. looking for a picture of the linkage from the side of the engine to see how the linkage lines up in full speed forwar.

 

[acmetim]

foleyba4, yes i still have it. next time i am at the boat i will get photos. you just want some shots from the side with the the throttle w.o.t.?