!976 22' Fiberform

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

A little help from the pro's please. My project is coming along, doing the tedious corner and bottom cleaning of the old transom. A little bit more sanding of the transom and then good to go. The old transom hole is to big for the mercury 350 with the mercury 188 outdrive so I have to do a total wood transom and then patch the fiberglass hole on the back of the transom and then cut to fit my engine unit.
The question I have is should I fill the fiberglass hole first, using a temp backing board on the inside with some wax paper in between?
Or do I put my new transom temporarily in place trace the present hole, then remove and epoxy around the trace, and epoxy the inside of the transom and then reinsert and clamp, and wipe up the epoxy leaking all around the hole.
Or is there a better way lol?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

OK, I gotta make sure here that I am understanding correctly...
You are going to use epoxy, then Poly over it?
From everything I have read here on the forum, that sounds like a NO-NO...
I may be misreading, but you should double check...

Now on to filling the over sized hole in your transom...

This is the way I would do it, but as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat...
All of the following is using Polyester Resin...I have never used epoxy resin for boat building, so I can offer no advice in that direction...
Laminate and install the new transom plates...
Then grind down a tapered edge around the old opening, starting from the hole and working away from it, about 6-8 inches... and begin filling it back to fair using CSM and 1708...then finally cut out your key hole...

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

OK, I gotta make sure here that I am understanding correctly...
You are going to use epoxy, then Poly over it?
From everything I have read here on the forum, that sounds like a NO-NO...
I may be misreading, but you should double check...

Now on to filling the over sized hole in your transom...

This is the way I would do it, but as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat...
All of the following is using Polyester Resin...I have never used epoxy resin for boat building, so I can offer no advice in that direction...
Laminate and install the new transom plates...
Then grind down a tapered edge around the old opening, starting from the hole and working away from it, about 6-8 inches... and begin filling it back to fair using CSM and 1708...then finally cut out your key hole...

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like the plan.
I plan on laminating the new transom layers, and attaching it to the old fiberglass transom with epoxy. And to "glue" the stringers and motor mounts with Epoxy. The inside of the new transom will still be bare wood. Then all corner rounding, inner transom encapsulating, stringer and motor mount tabbing will be poly. If I'm careful no poly will come in contact with epoxy.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Once again, there is really no need for the Epoxy. The Thickened Poly Will bond the transom to the outer skin of the boat very well. GT1 has given you the best method to effect this repair. Once the new transom wood is in place you can grind the outside of the old transom and lay new glass until you reach the required thickness and then cut the required keyhole. The subsequent interior glass laminations to the hull will provide the required strength for the hull/transom connection. I really see no need for Epoxy in this repair, but it's your boat and your choice.

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Once again, there is really no need for the Epoxy. The Thickened Poly Will bond the transom to the outer skin of the boat very well. GT1 has given you the best method to effect this repair. Once the new transom wood is in place you can grind the outside of the old transom and lay new glass until you reach the required thickness and then cut the required keyhole. The subsequent interior glass laminations to the hull will provide the required strength for the hull/transom connection. I really see no need for Epoxy in this repair, but it's your boat and your choice.

Appreciate the advice. Hopefully I can return the Epoxy. What about seating the Engine mounts and stringers? Poly? Or what type of glue? Can you advise the mixture amounts to thicken the poly for bonding the transom to the outer skin?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Appreciate the advice. Hopefully I can return the Epoxy. What about seating the Engine mounts and stringers? Poly? Or what type of glue? Can you advise the mixture amounts to thicken the poly for bonding the transom to the outer skin?

I would use PB for all my "glue ups"...then tab with CSM and finally 1708...

I usually mix up my PB {peanut butter} to the consistency I want before adding any catalyst...
In most applications I will use Resin + Cabosil + Milled Fibers OR Chopped Strand that I cut up with scissors from the CSM { they act like rebar in concrete...
For the transom "glue" I mixed it up fairly thick, similar to a tile mortar for setting tiles, after catalyzing it kind of slow, about .75% to 1%, applied it to the transom plates and the inner hull skin with a 1/4" toothed trowel...clamped in place with the "WoG" clamps, {see his sig for details} and done...
Be sure to try and have an assistant to give you a hand and be sure to rehearse the procedure "DRY" before hand to get a good working knowledge of the steps involved...
Depending on the size of the transom, you will use anywhere from 2 quarts to possibly around a gallon or more of PB...in the case of the transom it is my opinion that it is best to have more than you think you'll need, by drilling a few holes in the wood to allow the PB to ooze through and allow any to squeeze out from around the edges, you'll get a solid bond and the stuff that squeezes from the edges you can immediately use to create the fillet around the perimeter...
Also, try to work in the shade and in the cooler part of the day, that, along with a slow catalyzing rate, will give you about 20-30 minutes, or longer, of working time...
Finally keep in mind that since you are working with an I/O set up, to leave yourself enough "build" space to keep the finished transom within the specified thickness for your outdrive...as an example, a layer of CSM + 2 layers of 1708 will equal about 1/16" -1/8"...

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

I would use PB for all my "glue ups"...then tab with CSM and finally 1708...

I usually mix up my PB {peanut butter} to the consistency I want before adding any catalyst...
In most applications I will use Resin + Cabosil + Milled Fibers OR Chopped Strand that I cut up with scissors from the CSM { they act like rebar in concrete...
For the transom "glue" I mixed it up fairly thick, similar to a tile mortar for setting tiles, after catalyzing it kind of slow, about .75% to 1%, applied it to the transom plates and the inner hull skin with a 1/4" toothed trowel...clamped in place with the "WoG" clamps, {see his sig for details} and done...
Be sure to try and have an assistant to give you a hand and be sure to rehearse the procedure "DRY" before hand to get a good working knowledge of the steps involved...
Depending on the size of the transom, you will use anywhere from 2 quarts to possibly around a gallon or more of PB...in the case of the transom it is my opinion that it is best to have more than you think you'll need, by drilling a few holes in the wood to allow the PB to ooze through and allow any to squeeze out from around the edges, you'll get a solid bond and the stuff that squeezes from the edges you can immediately use to create the fillet around the perimeter...
Also, try to work in the shade and in the cooler part of the day, that, along with a slow catalyzing rate, will give you about 20-30 minutes, or longer, of working time...
Finally keep in mind that since you are working with an I/O set up, to leave yourself enough "build" space to keep the finished transom within the specified thickness for your outdrive...as an example, a layer of CSM + 2 layers of 1708 will equal about 1/16" -1/8"...

Ok this is going to be a poly job only. I've read your post, appreciate your time thank you, and will do as advised. I did look on WOG sig and saw his clamping, but I don't think it will work on mine because of the 8 inch gunwhale/topcap or whatever you call it at the top of my transom, so I think I need to use studs inside and out and screwed together using holes in the transom I will be re using. Somewhere I read to use wax paper between the clamp studs and holes to prevent sticking.
Not 100% happy with my transom sanding yet so have a little more to get it down to the original inner skin and a uniform yellow colour. Close but another couple hours should do it. Then let the glassing begin.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Don't worry about using the woody's clamps...a lot of guys use a combination of all the holes that are already there along with a couple extra if needed and some long bolts through 2X4's on edge to hold everything together...
I can't find a picture of the set up right now, but I will look and get one posted up...

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Don't worry about using the woody's clamps...a lot of guys use a combination of all the holes that are already there along with a couple extra if needed and some long bolts through 2X4's on edge to hold everything together...
I can't find a picture of the set up right now, but I will look and get one posted up...

The picture would be great. Thanks.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Here's one example, but there are others...I'll try to find more...

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Here is a link to FriscoJarretts You Tube Video on him installing the transom on his Sea Ray...
Installing the transom in the Sea ray - YouTube

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Here is a link to FriscoJarretts You Tube Video on him installing the transom on his Sea Ray...
Installing the transom in the Sea ray - YouTube

Thanks for the links GT much appreciated and helpful to the project. Will post some pics today if I can figure out why they are to big to load. An hour in the boat today cleaning up a corner and some sanding for the tabbing base on the floors and walls and done. Am pretreating the transom wood with Rot Doctor CPES, and should be done with that and have it cut to shape, and ready to start installing tomorrow.

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

After many hours of hacking, chiseling, chopping and sanding, I'm just about to start putting it back together. Transom is pretty much ready just need a little cleanup around the old stringers and I can do the transom and then scab to the old stringers, fiberglass them, and then install the motor mounts. I also plan on one more layer on the floor after sanding and cleaning it up.

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

OK, I gotta make sure here that I am understanding correctly...
You are going to use epoxy, then Poly over it?
From everything I have read here on the forum, that sounds like a NO-NO...
I may be misreading, but you should double check...

Now on to filling the over sized hole in your transom...

This is the way I would do it, but as the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat...
All of the following is using Polyester Resin...I have never used epoxy resin for boat building, so I can offer no advice in that direction...
Laminate and install the new transom plates...
Then grind down a tapered edge around the old opening, starting from the hole and working away from it, about 6-8 inches... and begin filling it back to fair using CSM and 1708...then finally cut out your key hole...

GT my sunday morning question, if you will. When i'm tapering the hole how deep do I go? Into the new transom wood or no deeper than the old fiberglass layer. Its 3/8 of a inch thick. Thanks...

 

[GT1000000]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

GT my sunday morning question, if you will. When i'm tapering the hole how deep do I go? Into the new transom wood or no deeper than the old fiberglass layer. Its 3/8 of a inch thick. Thanks...

Generally the ratio is about 6-12 times the thickness...in your case...6 X 3 = 18/8's or 2-1/4 Inches to 12 X 3 = 36/8's or 4-1/2"...all the way around...no need to go into the newly installed transom...basically from the edge of the keyhole outwards...

Here is a profile view...

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Generally the ratio is about 6-12 times the thickness...in your case...6 X 3 = 18/8's or 2-1/4 Inches to 12 X 3 = 36/8's or 4-1/2"...all the way around...no need to go into the newly installed transom...basically from the edge of the keyhole outwards...

Here is a profile view...

Thanks GT. One more is there any downside to me laminating the three sheets of plywood together out of the boat using poly and cloth and then installing the three sheets as one into the boat then fillet, tab, couple layers of cloth and done. Did a dry run handling one sheet of plywood with a helper and sure we can handle the three sheets all at once.

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Would really appreciate any one out there knowing the answer to respond. I'm installing my transom today and will be clamping using 2x4's and 3/8's redirod through the transom and curing transom. what can I put on the bolts to keep the fibreglass from hardening around them?? WD40?

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Putting the transom wood together outside of the boat is a good idea actually. I've coated bolts with vasoline before with good success.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Yep George is Spot On, a good coat of Vaseline is the way to go!

 

[Rranger]

Re: !976 22' Fiberform

Yep George is Spot On, a good coat of Vaseline is the way to go!

I used synthetic lub, am going outside to remove clamps here's hoping she busts loose. Will posts pics of the clamp job later.