9th Circus Court Rules.....

[samagee]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

djohns19, you are being prejudice. You should treat male and females equal. If it's a male or female middle easterner, don't hesitate to thump on them. Remember, men and women are equal.

 

[DJ]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

samagee,<br /><br />Sorry, see above test.

 

[samagee]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

You know I was just poking fun, right?

 

[plywoody]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

They can't be recertified because they are not accurate--or at least not nearly as accurate as the new machines they are waiting on.<br /><br />You cannot have one county have machines with one error rate (and they can test this) and a different county have machines with a substantially different error rate. That flies in the face of the democracy, and is, of course, unconstitutional, which is why the ACLU became involved.<br /><br />And I don't care what happens to Davis. I think he is an idiot. The only person worse than Davis is Bustamante, I think. Arnold may be worse yet, but so far we don't know. all we know about him is what we hear from Oprah.<br /><br />but California has lots of problems, and none of these candidates have any hope of "fixing" it

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

I live in the sticks in upstate, NY and people<br />ask me all the time; "why would you ever leave<br />California?"... they just don't understand

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

Plywoody, the 9th circus arbitrarily made law from the bench.<br />They set president where none was set.<br />The issue that went to court in Florida wasn't the machines themselves, it was the actual counting of votes.<br /><br />In each point here, bim, bam and boe.<br />The 9th clearly overreached. <br />If you've ever used a punch card ballot, and I've done it for years. It's cut and dry. I doubt that a more complex machine is more accurate then on that uses simplicity. <br />As in:<br />1. Read the ballot.<br />2. Align marker arrow to candidate that you choose.<br />3. Press down firmly.<br />4. Proceed to next issue.<br />Try not to make it more then what it is. Remember, we're real people here. And your projecting propaganda that the machines are inacurate. Do you really believe this?<br /><br />It's all a non issue, unless the Dems/libs/socials want to attempt to skew an election.........as they did in the last presidential election.<br /><br />Your correct about Davis, Bustamonte and Arnold though.

 

[12Footer]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

Two points that have allready been made, need to be made again, as somebody didn't read, or understand them.<br /><br />1. The same machines that installed Gray-out into office are not certified. This is because some don't want them used.<br /><br />2. The 9th circus are judges. This means they are not to write the laws, but to uphold the laws.<br />They can't 'rule' for the sake of ruling, which is what they did.<br />Outside of having this travesty of justice swiftly overtiurned, they should just as swiftly be disbarred and jailed for obstruction!!

 

[plywoody]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

I have used punch cards before as well. It depends on how well they are maintained and how carefully one punches the holes in it.<br />They are *not* as accurate as the new machines, especially in light of the fact that these machines were decertified, mothballed, and set to be discarded- it is hard to imagine a lot of maintenance was performed on them.<br /><br />Oh, and 12 footer, it is unconstitutional to use uncertified voting machines in an election in this country. The machines that voted in Mr Davis were indeed certified, and after the election they were decertified by the elction commission ( a bipartisan group, BTW) and scheduled to be replaced in time for a March election.<br /><br />Whether or not it is convenient for you, it is the law. Like it or not, judges have to follow the law.<br /><br />And why is it, do you suppose, that poor counties in California are the last ones to get them replaced? Coincidence? Not that this is particularly relevant to the case at hand, but it is curious. I just bet that if Orange county had the old machines, they would be screaming bloody murder.

 

[ob]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

My gawd we ain't gonna have another one of those elections where people are gawking at all of those ballet cards with magnifying glasses are we?

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

OK ply, I understand the legalities of certification. And I agree with the validity as it pertains to the law.<br />However, we don't need one machine for every voter. There is ample time to take some windex and a rag, a little WD40, punchy, punchy and recertify them.<br /><br />Since you've personally used punch card machines. And the fact your an educated professional as I believe you are.<br />Man to man here. Forget idealogy, forget the hype and media.<br />Are you really going to stand by your statements that a punch card machine is inaccurate, unreliable and prone to faults?<br /><br />Especially since the reliability throughout the entire history of the machines, reliability has never been an issue. That is, up until one election, in a couple of counties, in one state.<br />But lets even put that aside.<br />There it is a ballot with holes in it. <br />A ballot that can't be erased, because?......You can't erase the hole.<br />Now, feeble, nervous Nellie. Some how, some way has managed to make a mistake and voted for someone she didn't intend to. Here it is, right in front of her nose.........a hole where she didn't want one! <br />"Excuse me Sir! I seem to have been off my medication, made a mistake. Can I have another ballot?"... Again, no problem with the machine.<br /><br />Ply, even if I didn't care who was voted for what.<br />Having used these machines, never, could my mind comprehend that they are inaccurate or unreliable.<br />You think they are though. Why?<br /><br />Oh and one final thing. You wrote;<br /><br />

And why is it, do you suppose, that poor counties in California are the last ones to get them replaced? Coincidence? Not that this is particularly relevant to the case at hand, but it is curious. I just bet that if Orange county had the old machines, they would be screaming bloody murder.

Plywoody, nobody has been screaming bloody murder. No county has been screaming bloody murder.<br /> It's been only the ACLU screaming bloody murder.<br /><br />Again ply, thank you for the exchange.

 

[plywoody]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

First of all, there is nothing in the constitution about having to be intelligent to be a voter, so it is irrelevant whether an intelligent person would have any problems with them or not. The fact is they are obsolete technology, and have been for a long time, and they are demonstrably less accurate than the new technology.<br /><br />And the fact that in most states, in every convenience store on every street corner, they have lottery machines to feed the states' revenue coffers that are arguably *never* wrong, and you can bet that anyone can use those things. It is a disgrace in my opinion that we still use outdated technology for something so important as voting.<br /><br />And who better than the ACLU to challenge the constitutionality of this? A private citizen, especially in the poorer sections, does not have the time or the money to take an issue like this to court. Thank heavens someone does.

 

[ob]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

I doubt that a higher tech voting machine will erradicate the gripes as to the final tally of votes irregardless of how its accuracy is explained.If there is even a remote possibility of a newer machine being in error or non tamper proof,I suspect that you will still have issues.DNA and OJ Simpson proved that.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

12 Footer,<br /><br />There two kinds of Law in the US, case law and wrote law. Wrote law is comprised of laws that were iether voted on by the electorate (in the case of many state laws, like the Florida Class Size Amendment that added maximum class sizes allowable by law to the Florida State Constitution, and another law that was voted into effect in Florida that set minimum sizes for enclosures for welping sows ). the other kind of law is case law, also know as "bench law", these are laws derived from the rulings of judges, that address situations not covered under general penal code, or state or federal constitutional law. Thusly you hear attornies quoteing cases such as Roe V Wade, case law that was adjudicated by the lower courts and upheld by the higher courts, which in this case was the US Supreme Court. Other case laws were upheld by the appellate courts, and were not further appealled or the higher courts refused to make rulings, therefore some case law is weak due to conflicting rulings in various juristictions by different levels of court. In each case that a judge is trying, it is his or sole discretion to determine the wieght of what case or constitutional law is presented in the case and rule according to his or her judgement. While emotion and political bias is supposed to a part of the system, judges are human and it is the job ofthe electorate to controle what type of judges are in power.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: 9th Circus Court Rules.....

Wait, am I confused? Isn't it Congress that writes the laws, and the Judiciary that interprets them and rules on their constitutionality? I've never heard of "bench law", but I have heard of "Ohm's Law" and "LA Law" (and "Burke's Law"...am I dating myself?? ). And isn't the 9th Circuit Court just condemning older and out-dated technology because, face it, those punch-card ballots are confusing (ex.: 2000 Fla Pres election)? Or have I been drifting outside the boat for too long and become waterlogged?