A man has gotta know his limitations

[OldePharte]

To make a very long story short, my neighbor needed a little help on replacing some old light switches to 2 inside ceiling fans and lights. I take over a multimeter and a Fluke voltage tester to help with the troubleshooting. The first 3-way switch looks good (2 blacks and a red). After a bit of investigation at the other 3-way, I noticed only 1 black and 1 red. Then I find a ground that is hot, not on the switch to the inside lights, but on the next switch over from it (double switch box)! Not only is it hot, but it is feeding one leg of the 3-way switch to the inside fixtures. WTF??? This also means that the metal face on the switch is also live.

I do a bit more of investigation and find a couple more live grounds and that the copper water line coming into the house is also live!!! OMG!!!

Sooo, I back away slowly and said ya all need a real electrician 'cause this just ain't right.

My guess is that somewhere that they have a hot lead connected directly to ground for this to happen.

I did figure out that for some reason, the first 3-way wasn't getting any power, but since they need higher help than I was willing to get into anyway, I'll let the "master" figure that out as well.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: A man has gotta know his limitations

I hear ya....you know what I hate about this kind of situation? The more you get into it...the more you sweat...and then the more of a risk you personally become!!...yikes.
I think I would have started by trying to trace and disconnect the hot ground back and then start again. Clearly, the last 'do it yourselfer' found that a 2 conductor line could be used as a 3 conductor is you 'borrowed' the ground.
You did the right thing OP.
BP

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: A man has gotta know his limitations

Very smart move to back away.

 

[wifisher]

Re: A man has gotta know his limitations

Good job backing out of a situation that you do not understand, but what you are saying is nearly impossible. A ground wire can not be "hot" if it is bonded to the ground bus. That situation would cause a short, and blow the fuse/breaker almost immediately. Same thing for the water pipe. Water pipes are coming into the house from underground, and because of this, they are always grounded. Connecting them to a circuit before the load would cause a short and blow the circuit protection in no time.

 

[sschefer]

Re: A man has gotta know his limitations

Sounds like someone wired in a subpanel and didn't know they had to isolate the ground bus bar from the neutral at the subpanel. My dad did the same thing years ago in the garage. Never could get the grass to grow within 15' of the ground rod. I just found it last year when I re-wired for a Welding circuit. My electricity bill dropped by nearly 100.00 a month!

 

[OldePharte]

Re: A man has gotta know his limitations

Good job backing out of a situation that you do not understand, but what you are saying is nearly impossible. A ground wire can not be "hot" if it is bonded to the ground bus. That situation would cause a short, and blow the fuse/breaker almost immediately. Same thing for the water pipe. Water pipes are coming into the house from underground, and because of this, they are always grounded. Connecting them to a circuit before the load would cause a short and blow the circuit protection in no time.

Hence my confusion. Image a light switch with an attached ground pig tail to the switch ground screw. The pigtail is not attached to the house ground; just loose, hanging in the air. Then test that pigtail and find it is live. That means the metal facing on the switch is also hot. Can't happen. No way for voltage to get to the metal facing. But it was. And no, there were no hot leads touching the metal.

I should have also noted that they are on a private well.