A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

[kshelly]

1974 115HP Johnson. This boat's killing me! 2 weeks ago engine died. Replaced power pack, all 4 ignition coils, and ignition switch. Engine ran great last night except I lost my forward gear due to shift linkage falling apart. Fixed the linkage, went out for a run today. Engine ran perfectly...for about 10 minutes. Just died, won't start. Using an inline spark tester, found out I have no spark. Anybody hear of a new power pack failing so soon and if so, why? I can't keep throwing $100 power packs at this thing. Wifey had enough with the whole boating experience. Wants me to sell. Doesn't sound like a bad idea!

 

[marinemech]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

possible bad pack try disconnectig black/yellow wire from pack: spark?? if it sparks now problem may be wiring key switch etc if still no spark problem is in moter make sure wires are on pack correctly also black wire is connected to a good ground may help to remove bolt clean up groung and reinstall if that fails pack or charge coils (stator) or timer base are suspect may be cheaper to have a dealer check it out for you

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

check to make sure you have AC voltage coming from the stator. also check that all is wired properly, and yes... they can blow that quickly. this is why they do not have warranties.

 

[Roj115]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

erau85,<br /><br />The '74 115 Johnson is a very reliable motor so don't give up on it too soon ! It's likely that the problem is something simple and once it's fixed you will have a great little engine on your hands (unless it's worn out and got bad compression or something.)<br /><br />We used to have problems with power packs on our '74 Johnson when the engine was new but that changed a around the late 70s when OMC started getting their pulse packs or the circuit boards therein from a different supplier. We've never had the slightest problem with a pulse pack since we got one of the better made ones. That was probably 20 years ago or more. I honestly can't remember when we last had a power pack fail on that engine. Have had to replace the odd rectifier though so you might want to get out your Clymer or other type manual and look up how to test the rectifier and replace it if necessary. If you don't have means to test the rectifier then try putting another one in and see what happens. <br /><br />I would be VERY surprised if your new power pack is gone. In fact, I kind of doubt your other one went bad too because changing it out doesn't seem to have solved the problem. Odds are that it's something else then. Eliminate all simple things before suspecting your pulse pack. You may have a problem with the stator but again I would be very surprised if that were the case. Our engine just turned 30 and we've never had to replace the stator so methinks the stators on those motors are probably pretty reliable.<br /><br />So start with all the simple things. As suggested above, check all the wiring and grounds and make sure all leads going into the Pulse pack are going to the correct terminals. Clean up all electrical connections and grounds you can get at with Caig De-Oxit contact cleaner/deoxidizer (magic stuff !). Test/replace rectifier if necessary.<br /><br />Those engines need to be cranking quite fast in order for there to be any spark. I seem to recall having no spark once and it turned out to be a sick battery. Battery was good enough to crank the motor but not enough voltage there to get a spark. How good is your battery and how clean are your battery posts ? How are the connections at the starter ? If battery is not new then try starting engine with a different battery which you know is 100% good and fully charged.<br /><br />A-Ha ! I think I know what your problem is because I think I've had the basically the same thing happen before. If your rectifier has gone then you have no charging system so running your engine for a while would cause your battery to get drawn down and then you might not have enough juice to get a spark next time.<br /><br />So my guess is you either have a bad rectifier or a weak battery or both.<br /><br />Does your boat have a tachometer ? Was it working when the engine ran ? If the tach wasn't working then that's a good indication the rectifier has gone. Like I said above, I've had a few of those fail on me over the years so that would be one of the first things I'd check. The Pulse pack would be way down on my list of suspects.<br /><br />Hope that helps,<br /><br />Roj<br /><br />'74 Johnson 115<br />'77 Evinrude 9.9 <br />Both owned and maintained since new.

 

[james roach]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

I suspect your stator is the culprit.

 

[Hotrods]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

~

 

[kshelly]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Roj115;<br />Thanks for taking the time to respond with such a long and detailed reply! I did all the resistance readings today (stator, ignition coils, charge coils, sensor coils) all check okay. Connections are tight, I'd bet my paycheck the wires are installed in the right place on the power pack, and there's no corrosion. Tried the key test as suggested by marinemech, still no spark. I know at the time of the failure my battery was very good. Not only is it new, but it operated my trolling motor at full speed for a good 2-3 hours getting us back to the ramp and still cranked the engine. I'm giving it a slow 2 amp charge now just to be sure. Plus I use a solar battery charger to maintain the battery when the boat sits in my driveway. I did the rectifier test anyway and found it failed between the two leads. I'll replace it, although I don't think it caused my engine to die suddenly. I don't know if the tach was working before the engine quit. At the time I was about 1/2 throttle cruising fat, dumb and happy down the river without monitoring my instruments. I also know compression is not an issue. I have about 115 psi on 3 cylinders, 110 on the other. I'll charge the battery overnight, replace the rectifier and try again for spark before ordering another power pack. Wifey warned me it would be a money pit........!!! Hate when she's right! Thanks to everyone who replied!

 

[Dhadley]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Make sure the ground on the pack is good. Really good.<br /><br />Once your battery is up disconnect the large red cannon plug and check spark again by jumping the starter solenoid. Leave the plugs in but connect the coil leads to the spark checker. If it starts you'll have no way to shut it off other than choking it.<br /><br />If you still have no spark with the plugs in, take them out and recheck. If you have spark now, the motor is not spinning over fast enough with the plugs in. Weak starter, weak battery, weak flywheel magnets, weak sensor etc.<br /><br />If you have spark with the plugs in reconnect the red cannon plug. If you lose spark the problem is from the plug forward.<br /><br />With the cannon plug disconnected and the plugs out if there is no spark, find and remove the black wire with the yellow stripe from the pack. If you have spark now, the problem is that black/yellow wire is shorted to ground between the pack and the cannon plug.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[87Aggie]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

erau85, your problem sounds very similar to mine. I have a '77 140 (V4 crossflow). I have weak to no spark and the motor won't start. I've replaced the stator, rectifier, and power pack. Still not go. You mentioned doing resistance readings to check the various ignition components. What did you use to perform that task and how do you go about it? I'm in the same boat you are, wife wants to get rid of it. I'm pretty stubborn and don't want to give up (I've spent a lot of time and money on this baby this summer and want to get out on the water). You're not getting any spark whatsoever?

 

[Roj115]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Take a look at this thread, http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=024170#000002 <br /><br />Perhaps this may explain a few things. <br /><br />Dhadley's troubleshooting tips are great but I'm thinking your problem may be solved when the new rectifier goes in.<br /><br />87Aggie,<br /><br />Joe Reeves gave a good description of test in this thread: http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=021490#000002 <br /><br />Roj115

 

[seahorse5]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Try this site for troubleshooting tips:<br /><br /> http://outboardparts.com/troubleshooting/troubleshooting3.htm

 

[Bradster941]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

I'm missing something here, what does the rectifier have to do with the ignition?<br /><br />The rectifier just converts the a.c. output from the stator to d.c. for the charging system. The power for the ignition is a seperate circuit off the stator, or so I thought.

 

[inohv8]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

The Rectifier has the common ground for one.. if high feedback due to short to ground from stator, can feed through the entire electrical system..<br />I should note that I had a similare problem, no spark , weak spark, and I touched something at the helm while runnning the engine to troubleshoot.. I got such a lift.... after scratching my head for a long time, I put a scope on the power pack outputs. the wave I got was really weard. I finally ran a seperate ground using aligator clips... to the neg. bat. cable.. Low and behold, I got a huge spark.. Apparentely the ground which read ok was not a rock solid ground to the pack.. Another ground wire run fixed that.. compounding the problem was the fact that my new coils were the wrong value..<br />Hear this one out... and grab a fluke meter..<br />measure the coil resistance output (high voltage side) engine not running please.. the coils I had read 2.2 Kohms.. they are suppose to be 220 ohm (give or take).. I went back to the supplier (these were sierra coils), and got 3 more.. they also tested wrong.. After requesting a different style coil with the correct resistance, then everything ran purrrrrrfect..<br />a meter is great tool.. end easy to use..

 

[kshelly]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

I guess enough is enough. I disconnected the rectifier, no help. Tried all of Dhadley's troubleshooting, never got spark. I guess it's time to pony-up and pay "the man" to get this thing running. I've been told by several other marina owners that the mechanic at my marina is the best OMC mechanic for 100 miles. I guess I'll let him figure it out. I could throw another power pack at it, but if something is burning them up, it won't do me any good. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. I'll keep you posted on what fixes this beast!

 

[Hotrods]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Nothing wrong with that.. Electrical is the hardest to trouble shot. You can pay them for just trouble shooting im sure. I say they hit you with one hour. prob 75$ then if you want fix it yourself. I could have done that but I wanted them to hear mine run. they said mine is the stator 235$. 75$ trouble shooting and he ask me if i wanted to replace it myself.. Nah. for 75$ more let them make sure thats all it is.<br /><br />HEy!! our best fishing is 2 months away anyway

 

[Daniel Beckman]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

.

 

[Hotrods]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Status?, mine was the stator

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

In addition to Dhadley's post pertaining to having a shorted ignition switch which is quite common, also check that black/yellow wire as follows.<br /><br />Remove the black/yellow wire from the powerpack. Have the ignition key in the ON position (engine NOT running). Hook up a DC voltmeter between the black/yellow wire and ground.<br /><br />If there is the slightest trace of DC voltage at that point, replace the ignition switch as it is allowing voltage to escape from the "B" terminal to the raised boss "M" terminal.<br /><br />After replacing the switch, double check for that voltage reasing just in case there is another weird short condition within the wiring harness due to excessive moisture or whatever.<br /><br />That powerpack will not tolerate any outside voltage source. Any outside voltage (ever a 10th of a volt) being applied to that black/yellow wire will destroy the powerpack quite quickly.

 

[kshelly]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Finally got the boat fixed. Powerpack fixed it again. According to the mechanic, I used a sub-standard powerpack when I replaced it myself. I told him I paid $100 for it, he said I should've paid $60! He also warned me that the "new" ignition coils I replaced were hanging around since 1974. He said they're still good, but later coils delivered better spark. I guess when it comes to buying parts, buyer beware. I bought the coils new from Ebay, but they were sitting around for 30 years while newer, more advanced coils were produced. Go figure.

 

[McGR]

Re: A new power pack failed after 10 minutes???

Personally, I think your mechanic is feeding you a line... I've used aftermarket power packs on a couple of my motors and had no problems. Granted, these were '70s motors, so I can't necessarily speak for the newer more complex packs. I can also tell you that I've repaired my old power packs as back ups and there is no rocket science going on in the old modules. It seems to me reverse engineering of these parts would be easy for the aftermarket companies. Coils aren't rocket science either. Their design is based on simple turns ratios and magnetic permeability. I believe there was some design change in the mid 70's on the coils. But I doubt the older ones were inherently defective. I'd say as long as they pass a spark test, don't worry about them. <br /><br />My money is on the fact that something induced the failure in your other power pack. Hopefully it won't rear its ugly head again.