A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Fireman, what in the world is that welded to the keel of your boat????
 

BillP

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Fireman,<br />Maybe my eyes are failing me but it looks like your cavitation plate is about 6" below the boat bottom. It's below the trailer roller in the pic.
 

fireman57

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Well guys these are rosco's pics that he sent me last week. He emailed them to me and asked me to post them for him. Maybe now you can see what he wants to do. I'm sure he'll be on here later to let you know what he has in store.
 

AMD Rules

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Rosco,<br /><br />To fit that boat, the motor should be converted to a short shaft. The cavitation plate as shown, is well below the bottom of the hull and will affect performance.<br /><br />The jackplate would probably work, but the powerhead will be way up in the air and look peculiar. Add to that the wire-pully steering system and a jack plate with any offset may be a nuisance to install.<br /><br />That I-beam welded to the bottom of your keel may affect where the sweet spot is for the motor height. With anti-cav plate level with bottom of the hull, the prop will desire undisturbed water flow. The I-beam may be a disturbance, and require that motor to be lower than 'normal'.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents.
 

BillP

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Originally posted by fireman57:<br /> Well guys these are rosco's pics that he sent me last week. He emailed them to me and asked me to post them for him. Maybe now you can see what he wants to do. I'm sure he'll be on here later to let you know what he has in store.
Now it makes sense to me! :D
 

fireman57

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

I don't know if that "keel strip" would impede any water flow or not. It appears thin enough that it shouldn't do anything except maybe help track better on sharp turns to keep from hydroplaning or sliding. I'm going to try to post what he is thinking about doing since he is obviously busy.
 

fireman57

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

From rosco<br /><br /><br />6/9/05<br />My main concern with the jackplate is that the motoris going to be sitting pretty high up on it's own. Those "bullhorn "cut-outs will make it seem as though it is up in a crow's nest.If I am backing up,sometimes a little water will come in over the bullhorns. I fixed that by fashioning two checkerplate pieces to cover those recesses.If you look at the pics,you can see the 5 odd screw holes where these little plates went.<br /> The jackplates I have seen seem to rely on bolting the motor to them,rather than using the transom clamps.The old girl only has one hole either side that you could bolt it on with.Would that be strong enough ?? . I'm probably going stronger than needed,but I don't think I'd be happy with just the two bolts holding her up.<br /> Plan B is a little simpler. See that 3/8" plate?... now imagine this...... *take motor off<br /> *get another identical plate and fix it 5" up,using 4 or 6 3/8"stainless bolts thru the original plate and transom<br /> *Get rectangular section aluminium 2" x 6"approx.and fix behind raised part of this new plate,to sit on the box section of the boat [where motor sits now ]<br /> *extend that T piece of bracing to the back of this new rectangular section to stop it from going backwards<br /> * to finish ,I've got a bit of 1mm plate that will cover the bullhorn voids<br /> This way,I could bolt it thru the new plate ,and also clamp it on that 2x6<br /> It's strength is gained from bolting it onto the original plate with a 12" overlap ,and only a 5" protrusion.But on the opposite side of the push applied by the motor<br /> Cost wise,the welded option runs at $65/hr plus material. maybe 2hrs plus bits...$250???<br /> <br /> Plan B is mostly parts cost. maybe $100 plus an hours welding ,tops.<br /><br />To the jackplate. The simpler/cheaper ones on iboats seem to be made up of two independant "C"sections of aluminium.So you think the two bolt holes [I'm sure you can see them on a photo ]will hold her up O.K ??.<br /> The section on top for the clamps to hold on to will help,I'm sure.<br /> I've only been to a couple of places looking for jackplates,but no luck so far.I don't think they are all that common out here,but that won't stop me from looking further.<br /> At the end of the day,I think plan B is pretty much like a rosco brand jackplate,but I will investigate further.<br /><br />06/10/05<br /> Plan B is taking shape. Have got the plate..10mm thick and the same size as the plate you will see at the transom.I also got a solid rectangular aluminium bar 20mmx40mm to clamp to.Even bought all the bolts today. Can't get hi-tensile stainless,but explained the use intended to the shop dude and he sold me the right grade.Or so he said to me !<br /> There are a few more things {steering pulleys at motor} to sort out,but we got a long weekend here.Queens birthday.The absolute only good thing about the royals !!<br /> I need to get a thicker block to clamp to ,maybe 60mm . The clamps only close to a minimum of about 50mm<br /> I know that I'm being paranoid,but I still don't feel supremely confident.I know that 10mm plate will not bend,but.....<br /> Once the T piece is welded to the bracing,I'm sure my paranoia will disappear.<br /><br />06/14/05<br />I've stuck with the 10mm plate,but for the clamp piece,I've gone to 60mmx40mm.A serious bit of non-ferrous.<br /> The small notched bits are to sit over the protuding part of the transom plate[if you still have the old pics],and rest on the 1 1/4" black box section where the motor is clamped now. This is to stop the new plate from being bent by the force of the motor.<br /> If you look close at those notches,you can see the line between them .This is the part of the plate that sits above the existing one[the increase in height].<br /> This whole shebang is going to be held with some 3/8" stainless bolts/nylocs.<br /> This lot,bolts &all,cost me AU$95....about US$70,and I reckon it's stronger than a jackplate,too.<br /> Let me know what you think.If you want,you can post this on my thread and show these blokes some serious Aussie overkill !!!<br /><br />
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<br /><br /> <br /><br />I'm still new at this pic posting. Just had my 17 year old show me yesterday.
 

Dhadley

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

OK, I get it. Ya skert me Fireman -- thought we might not outrun the brother there for a minute....<br /><br />That "fin" is slowing down the boat. Guaranteed. If its for steering all you need is a Torque Tamer on the skeg. Actually only about 1.5 - 2" of a standard one. Miss Budwiser didn't use one that big. <br /><br />If its an I beam the flat part on the bottom is pulling the boat down. The theory would be that its making a pad. But you cant let water on top of the pad.<br /><br />With that thing on there I'd bet the motor does have to be that low so it doesnt ventilate. Especially with that prop, even the defuser ring looks like its gone.<br /><br />But -- I'll bet the keel is straight.
 

fireman57

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

I took another look at rosco's pics and it is an ibeam. At first glance it looked like it didn't have the i on the bottom and was just a piece flat iron.<br />Dale, don't forget this isn't mine, this is rosco's. You're saying he needs to get rid of the keel strip, raise his engine (or convert to short shaft), and check his prop. I think he wants to build up his transom anyway as he mentioned that he is getting back splash in the boat at times. I'll try to get some pics of mine on my thread sometime soon so you can see what a great job you guys did.
 

ross patti

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Mar 15, 2005
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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

O.K guys, one at a time....<br />AMDrules...yeah,the whole lot has to be raised 5". Is it too high??? 'Dunno yet.Might,might not be. If it's going to look A.F.ridiculous,it is gone.<br /> As for the keel,A bloke running a boatyard told me to cut it back [as shown by red dotted line in photo ].Fireman tells me it's O.K . Dhadley is disgusted.<br /> On the subject of Mr. Hadley....<br /> I bought this boat as is.It's nearing 30years old.I don't know if the keel is for steering,road racing or the luge !<br /> I get the slight feeling you don't think highly of it. Do you think cutting it back a foot or so will help ?....or is it a total removal ?<br /> And my prop is crappy.that's next on the list.<br /> And if the diffuser ring stops that exhaust stain on the crappy prop,then ,yes,it's gone.<br /> Thanks for responding,guys, and I look forward to more feedback.
 

fireman57

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Rosco, you might explain the first set of pics to these guys and then explain your plan B. I think that dhadley has the idea but he might get a better one if you tell him what you have in mind.
 

ross patti

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

O.K here goes...<br /> We can now see my set-up.the AV plate is about 5" below the keel {not counting the super keel }.I need to raise the motor that 5 ".To achieve this,I have concocted a" Rosco brand " jackplate. Normal garden variety jackplates are not in great supply in Australia.<br /> Looking at the second set of photo's,you can probably work out how it will fit.The top view shows the small,vertical pieces with a notch cut out at the bottom.That notch will fit over the existing plate that slightly protrudes at the transom clamps.The big aluminium block will take the transom clamps.<br /> I could have got it welded,I could have taken it to a tradesman,but in the end,I had fun tinkering and if it all works out,that's all that counts.<br /> Now to THE keel.I think Ben Lexcen may have once owned this boat .It was a prototype for Australia II. Today I went to the original manufacturer of the boat.They still use a keel like this,just a little modified.They now simply cut about 12" from the back.They swear this will stop any ventilation/cavitation issues.<br /> Dhadley,what do you think ? I pretty much got the picture yesterday,but could you give it a once over again & see if it can work. I know you are regarded as a guru in boat set-up ,amongst other things,And I'd like to see if you think another option may suit better.<br /> Thanks to all....
 

jafa

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

quick question , how wide is that I beam at the bottom , any horizontal area will act like a foil , either pushing up or pulling down, would depend on the total area width x length. Rather than grinding the whole thing off would removing just the horizontal part be a reasonable half way step.
 

ross patti

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

G'day,rockhopper,<br /> Welcome . It is 21mm or 7/8ths " wide.You would like it just a little narrower.....But lucky it 'aint any wider.<br /> Yeah, I asked the same thing. I think that would work.<br /> But here's the funny thing.The boat handles any estuary conditions with ease.It's not designed for offshore use,so we are not talking 3m swell,but wind chop across an open estuary does not bother us at all.So it's interesting to hear how detrimental that keel is.<br /> As I mentioned in prior reply,the original boat manufacturer is still making them with this keel.It is even a little wider than mine in their new boats !!.BUT,they cut it back from about 40cm and taper the cut to leave about 5mm right at the back.So that removes the foot altogether from about 40cm away.They swear that doing the same to mine will remove any cavitation problems.<br /> I forgot to tell you the length is about 2m . It continues to the 2m from the transom,there it has the "foot" removed and becomes a 20mm keel to the pointy end.<br /> I guess the first test is done leaving the keel alone. If it ain't right,then...<br /> The next test we will remove that 40 cm . If it still ain't right.....<br /> Now we get serious with the grinder and remove the foot. If that don't fix it we get REALLY serious with the big grinder and cut the effen thing off.Either way,I'll beat it.<br /> First I've gotta fix that plate to the transom.It'so easy to put off jobs like drilling holes in your boat again and again.<br /> What do you guys think of my plans ?? Any input greatly appreciated Thanks...
 
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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Continuing on this thread but different question.<br /><br />I have been reading this with interest and a question has reared it's head. I use my boat totally in coastal waters and a 2/3ft swell is not uncommon, in fact it is the norm. Do the AV plate positions as described above apply to my boat? if so my prop would definately be a fan for 50% of the time.<br />Cheers.
 

BillP

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Not on a 14.5' boat unless you are wave jumping all the time.
 
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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

BiLLp said:-<br /><br />Not on a 14.5' boat unless you are wave jumping all the time.<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to reply my friend, unfortunatly the area I boat in is very open to the elements and any onshore breeze or wind whips up some pretty big seas. Having a 16'6" planing hull doesn't help the situation either. It is impossible to go WOT, a 'just above tickover' is about top wack. I am pleased to say it isn't all like this, we do get out of this area and then start to play.<br />Cheers.
 

ross patti

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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Update..... Today I rigged up the plate to lift the motor.The first attempt at 5.5" left the motor just a little too high.<br /> The next step leaves the motor 4.5" higher than what it was.The powerhead/cowling does not protrude that far .It unfortunately has to,because of the job at hand,but I'm happy at this compromise position.<br /> I'm now ready to bolt it all in place and test the effect of this ;and the effect of the keel.<br /> The AV plate should now sit 1/2" above the bottom of the boat.Like I said in my previous post,if it does cavitate,I'll do what's neede to stop it.<br /> The manufacturer of this boat has been in business for at least 35 yrs. If these keels were such bad news,why on earth would they still use them today ???.<br /> The part of the "superkeel" you see in the photo's is different to the rest of the keel.The last 18" to the transom was replaced time ago when some reinforcing of the transom was done.The rest of the keel has a more streamlined "I" section{no bulky welds }.The last section that was replaced may well have been wrongly extended to the transom,instead of ending 12-15" away,as discussed previously.<br /> Anyway,any further comments or input is always appreciated
 

ross patti

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Mar 15, 2005
Messages
157
Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Went out today and got a diffuser for the prop.Thank God i found one.It sounded serious.<br /> Now I hope this $3 bit will solve some of my problems.<br /> Have not had a chance to test the boat with the new motor height,still have to mess around with steering cables,etc.<br /> If anyone is still out there,I'll post the results as they happen.If not,I guess I'll just suit myself...
 

jafa

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: A.V plate is 4.5in below hull...help!

Were all here , just keeping a silent vigil. :D
 
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