Advice Needed. . .

[Woodnaut]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

How you take it up with your boss is important. I've been an Enginering Manager for the past 20 years and I've never once regretted being thoughtful before I spoke. I have, however, regretted speaking before I had a clear understanding of the facts. Like many others have already pointed out, you might not have all of the information yet. For example, I have two employees with special needs children that not everyone knows about. Not only that, but my boss almost always has more information than me on a lot of different subjects in the office.

Remain reliable, friendly and professional at all times and you will continue to build your personal integrity. That's important, because just like a good boat, your reputation and integrity will carry you through some pretty rough seas when others are foundering.

Wait for the right time if you're going to speak with your boss. One of my former bosses used to say "timing is everything". He was right. If you sense the time is right to raise the issue or make a comment to your boss, remain professional and constructive. It's all about being a top notch employee and maintaining good pesonal relationships along the way. We all know that words can destroy in seconds what it can take months or years to repair.

There are a few people who just don't get it. Sometimes, however, a few of them will eventually figure it out. Hope all works out well for you.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

I can relate to what your saying as I also have some people around our shop that seem to come and go as they please.

What I would do is confront your boss with what you see happening once. If things don't change just let it go. As some others have said what comes around goes around.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Working for the county means that tax dollars are paying the salary. If he is turning in fraudulent time slips, then it is a criminal offense. What time does the manager come in? If it is a later time, he may not even have a clue of what is going on. Some say it is none of your business, but it is if your a tax payer. That is just my opinion.

Where I work the managers are now punching a time clock along with all the line personel. This has taken away in cheating the working hours.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

There is a possibility that something else is going on.

I work in IT, and I do a lot of it from my home office. I show up at "work" fairly irregularly, and it seems always at pretty lazy hours. What others sometimes don't see is that I'm actually on call, and sometimes working almost 24/7. The system is in use from 6 am to about 7 pm, so if I have to do some serious maintenance, guess when it's done. Got a call at 6 am yesterday. Some critical files got damaged. Took till about 6:05 to understand the problem. Another 5 minutes to restore the damaged files from backup, and by 6:15 I got back to my breakfast.

So, if it's none of your business, keep your mouth shut and your attitude good. If he's working harder than you think and you are offended, it'll mess you up. If he's not, then when cuts come, and they will, he'll be history and you'll cruise on.

BTW, I was under the gun during massive cuts and I survived.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Many good responses here to your frustration with what seems to be an unethical work practice.
SS Mayfloat's post insinuated that there may even be perhaps a case for legal reprimand of some kind, which makes what at first seemed to be a rant all the more intriguing.
What is all too common in our culture, is that the inept and unproductive employee get the raises and promotions and are allowed to keep positions.
We sit back and whine that companies are not treating their workers fairly by importing their workers as many do in the IT arena, or take their production to foreign lands.
I say do something about it if your job is affected by the tardy employee's behaviour.
If you don't then you can only blame yourself, if you do then be cautiously diplomatic in your approach, as some have already alluded to in this thread.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

I'm just going to keep doing what i'm doing and if his tardiness does start to put more on me or our department head asks me to change my routine or hours THEN I'll bring it up.

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

I'm a manager with about 20 direct reports and I see stuff like this all of the time. Not with tardiness since we have time clocks and automatic reporting that kicks out someone who is a repeat offender, but I see it in performance issues that go on when I'm not there. I will have employees come to me and complain about someone. My first question to them is "have you mentioned to them?". Most of the time the answer is "no". My response is usually "then how are they to know this is a problem?". What I have seen happen is employees just let things bother them and they never say anything to that employee. Then things brew and finally the team suffers in their performance or there winds up being a major blow-up.

If your department works as a team, then consider talking to your other coworkers and see if his tardiness is bugging them too. If so, you all might want to approach him and explain you don't appreciate it and explain for y'all are to be successful as a team each person is to be responsible and accountable to the group. Be a mentor to him. You could be surprised to see how much he may positively respond to a mentor. Until the communication lines are opened, you will never know what is going on with him. You are only left to assume and be resentful of his actions. This may sound strange but "do unto others as they would have you do unto them." You get more from people when you act towers them the way they appreciate. The only way to find out what that is is through communication.

If none of that works then you need to talk to your manager. His tardiness is affecting you and causing you discontent with the job. That's not good for the team either. If you try the mentor approach first then you have a little ammo to cya when you talk to your boss.

Good luck.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

^^^^^ good info^^^

 

[ehenry]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

I've talked to the kid. I asked him straight up why he cant get to work on time. His response was "Well, I try." He does not try. When he gets to work he's generally slurping on some large coffee drink that he stops and picks up on the way in. He has zero work ethic and the guy we work for is letting him get away with it.

The boy started a project two years ago. He specked and ordered a new server for the assessor/collectors satellite office in a town about 15 miles from our main office. The machine came in, he unboxed it, powered it up and let the O/S load and then it sat on a table idle for 10 days less than two years. Our manager finally made him get in installed in the rack in the office where its suppose to go. That was 2 months ago and he's still not finished getting the machine in production.

 

[FBPirate95]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Then the rest of your work team needs to go to the manager and explain how y'all feel. He's obviously not a functional part of the team. Your manager needs to realize how this kid is detracting from his overall team. Right now he may only see the kid under performing and that it doesn't bother the rest of y'all. Maybe it will help motivate him to correct the kids behavior.

 

[bassman284]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Well, I've been following this thread and trying to relate the events herein to my personal experience working for a multinational automotive supplier. That didn't scan because in my environment the guy wuld have been gone a year or more ago.

Then I went back to the original post where you said you work for the county. AHA! That means your job is political. May not seem like it but it IS political by definition.

Then you said your manager is "easy going, easy to get along with." That's good, in a way, but also bad. Good, because it means he won't hassle you about anything as long as you keep breathing. Bad, because it means he won't hassle the screwup unless it becomes politically necessary.

You have to consider the possibility that the kid who is driving you over the edge is politically connected in some way that you don't know about. County politics, bud. It would certainly explain your manager tolerating his behavior. You explained the time sheets so your manager can't possibly NOT know. He is choosing to not know. Or he has no choice.

Even if he is NOT politically connected, the tendency in the public sector is to avoid all conflict which includes ignoring the foibles of incompetent employees.

Unfortunately, your best course of action is to ignore the doofus and do your job at a level that brings you comfort and/or satisfaction, recognizing that performing at a high level won't necessarily bring recognition, but also being a total screwup probably won't get you fired.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

One thing I've learned, man, is to stay out of other people's business. It's really just not worth the trouble.

I know it's very upsetting but really you don't want to make a whole lot of trouble at work. What I figure is if I'm doing my job away I was told to do it in the way that you're supposed to do it I'm not really going to worry about anybody else unless they are slowing me down, endangering my life, or otherwise causing me problems at work.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

I've talked to the kid. I asked him straight up why he cant get to work on time. His response was "Well, I try." He does not try. When he gets to work he's generally slurping on some large coffee drink that he stops and picks up on the way in. He has zero work ethic and the guy we work for is letting him get away with it.

.

You are the one with a problem, not others.
Ya can't fix things by making others bend to suit you.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

How do you figure I'm the one with the problem, Jonesg? What would you do in my situation?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

The boy started a project two years ago. He specked and ordered a new server for the assessor/collectors satellite office in a town about 15 miles from our main office. The machine came in, he unboxed it, powered it up and let the O/S load and then it sat on a table idle for 10 days less than two years. Our manager finally made him get in installed in the rack in the office where its suppose to go. That was 2 months ago and he's still not finished getting the machine in production.

This is a much more serious offense than not showing up for work on time. This makes it clear that your real problem is a bad manager. I wouldn't waste my breath on the tardiness issue when this kind of stuff is going on. Just do your job the best you can. If this other employee's performance negatively affects you or your customers, I wouldn't have any qualms about tossin' him under the bus so to speak with the manager although I doubt it will do much good. I've experienced these non-confrontational managers and it can be a real pain.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Its pushing 25 minutes after 8 and he's no where to be found.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Its pushing 25 minutes after 8 and he's no where to be found.

And you are on I-boat while on the clock. Oh wait so am I :facepalm:

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

He needs to come work here. He wouldn't last a week. We have to be on-time every day +/- only 5 minutes. We have to give 48 hours notice for any time off. If we are late or call in sick, we get demerits. After so many demerits, disciplinary action up to and including termination. Lunch breaks and what time you leave are subject to the same scrutiny. It's a quasi-state agency also.

 

[Red_BOFUS]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

Speak to him yourself, try a mentor approach.

 

[jollymon]

Re: Advice Needed. . .

There may be to many things taking place in the background that you do not know about, that could be going on, that the manager may be considering.

Some examples:
Medical condtion,
Using leave time,
most importantly, the young person may be politically connected.
Manager, may be doing something in the background.

I work for a goverment agency, and have a similar situation. I keep my mouth shut, the only time I have brought it up, is when it directly affects my work, or the users. In my case I know the manager and the late person are good friends, I also know the late person's wife is ill, and he has had some very bad times in his life.

I know the manager is aware of the abuse of time, if I rag on the manager it is only going to effect me.

I will not cover for either of them, but I will not get involved in it either.

The only way I would differnetly is if I thought my manager was not aware of it, then I would mention it once, and tell him, I am only doing so he is aware of it, to cover his back. After that he would be on his own.

A coulpe of years ago we had some major layoffs. Two of the people to go, were a non-producer that was always late, and a person that bitched every time that person was late, to every person that would or would not listen. Both had big targets on them!