All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

[Cadwelder]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

Well YD, so far I haven't seen many alternatives to just using gelcoat for small stuff. Kinda like the Marine Grade plywood thread u
you started a while back, always gets way off track.

As already said, anyone got another repair method for small chips and dings?


CW

 

[BillP]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

I?m not sure where you are going with this, and I have no clue why you brought up FDA approvals and such.

The type of silica used in this industry does not contain crystalline silica, which is the hazardous type and may result in silicosis, a deadly condition. The type of fumed silica we use is the safer type that can be used in foods, paint, cosmetics, etc. FDA approval doesn?t make it safe to breath though, dusts in general aren?t safe to breath, some are worse than others, but none are good for you. Osha sets TWA exposure limits for fumed silica, meaning they don?t think its a good idea to breath more than a small amount.

It?s interesting the manufacturers of fumed silica recommend not creating a dust cloud or breathing it, and when cleaning up a spill you should use a full suit and mask, possibly with an air supplied hood.

We use truck loads of this stuff every day.

Since this is your 2nd posting in error about breathing and eating not being revelant to filler type...any educated safety pro or doctor will tell you part of what you breath gets into your digestive track...it's biology, not opinion. All I remember is it's a duct or gland that enables the happening. Respirators aren't 100% efficient and breathed vapors and solids also get into your stomach. The Clue: I posted about the FDA because I though readers would understand it easier. The difference between what is mandatory and what is "recommended" is the difference between legally mandatory (fatal in this case) and optional (because it's only an irritant) to the user. Don't foget one causes damage to eye tissue and the other doesn't. It's all about the safest filler choice. If you need more clarification send me a pm.


Shifting gears to filler types...
There are other filler options...one is cotton linen fibers. They mix cleaner (no dust) and about as easy as cabosil and give the same characteristics, including seperating from the resin in vertical and overhead applications...where talc is added (same for cabo) to help the bond better. I mixed approx 55 gals worth on a project and prefer them over cabo. I'm sure someone will find fault with this and also breath enough to be hazardous. As far as I know, you can eat the stuff without gaining weight.

 

[jones01m]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

For what it is worth, I appreciate this argument about the cabosil. I have mixed quite a bit of peanut butter recently (for the first time by the way) and when I use the thickening agent cabosil, it typically makes me cough, but it is only for a second. I don’t cough all night nor do I wake up in the morning with a cough, but just for a second. So, if it is true that the cabosil is not harmful long term, I appreciate knowing this. Should I use a dust mask? Yes, but if I don’t (for some momentary lapse of reason) it is good to know the stuff isn’t going to kill me. Thanks for arguing the point out.

I also appreciate the discussion on fillers. It sounds like you can get away with just a few ingredients, or there are plenty of different options if one so chooses. Sometimes you just need to get the job done on a weekend and don't have time to run to the store or place an internet order if you run out of materials. It is nice to know other options. Keep it rollin' guys, I like to know what I "can" do when it comes to fillers.

P.S. I am neither a ‘Pro’ nor a ‘Con’. Just a newbie.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

Shifting gears to filler types...
There are other filler options...one is cotton linen fibers. They mix cleaner (no dust) and about as easy as cabosil and give the same characteristics, including seperating from the resin in vertical and overhead applications...where talc is added (same for cabo) to help the bond better. I mixed approx 55 gals worth on a project and prefer them over cabo. I'm sure someone will find fault with this and also breath enough to be hazardous. As far as I know, you can eat the stuff without gaining weight.

I have heard of 'cotton flock' being used as an additive with good results.

Remember..I am talking about doing "SMALL" gel chips/scratches. Its not like we are going to be taking out a 20lb bag of cabosil and/or gallons of gelcoat. At most you will be mixing an oz or two for the repair.

The material safety issues should not be a factor for this thread ( we will assume that you should be wearing a particle mask,gloves,eye protection at all times when working with fiberglass repair materials .. OK ).

For what it is worth, I appreciate this argument about the cabosil. I have mixed quite a bit of peanut butter recently (for the first time by the way) and when I use the thickening agent cabosil, it typically makes me cough, but it is only for a second. I don’t cough all night nor do I wake up in the morning with a cough, but just for a second. So, if it is true that the cabosil is not harmful long term, I appreciate knowing this. Should I use a dust mask? Yes, but if I don’t (for some momentary lapse of reason) it is good to know the stuff isn’t going to kill me. Thanks for arguing the point out.

I also appreciate the discussion on fillers. It sounds like you can get away with just a few ingredients, or there are plenty of different options if one so chooses. Sometimes you just need to get the job done on a weekend and don't have time to run to the store or place an internet order if you run out of materials. It is nice to know other options. Keep it rollin' guys, I like to know what I "can" do when it comes to fillers.

P.S. I am neither a ‘Pro’ nor a ‘Con’. Just a newbie.

Again..I am trying go help those Iboat members that just need to Repair a SMALL gel chip/scratch. I did not want to get into how to do transoms/floors or ANY structural repairs.

For the repairs I am talking about you dont need "PB" .. you need some kind of patch paste or filler.

You can use whatever you want for a chip/scratch. JB weld,marine tex, bondo,Adtech .. .. but if you WANT the Finish to be Gelcoat .. then you must have Gelcoat ..

Im suggesting that if your going with the gelcoat finish..then that is all the resin you need.

If you want to go out and buy some other filler to "fill and fair" the repair then great. But your still wanting that Gelcoat finish ? .. need gelcoat LOL.

Does anyone have an alternate to repairing Small repairs other then Gelpaste ? ( spraying over the repair is best but in a pinch the paste can do you fine for a bit ).

YD.

 

[BillP]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

For what it is worth, I appreciate this argument about the cabosil. I have mixed quite a bit of peanut butter recently (for the first time by the way) and when I use the thickening agent cabosil, it typically makes me cough, but it is only for a second. I don’t cough all night nor do I wake up in the morning with a cough, but just for a second. So, if it is true that the cabosil is not harmful long term, I appreciate knowing this. Should I use a dust mask? Yes, but if I don’t (for some momentary lapse of reason) it is good to know the stuff isn’t going to kill me. Thanks for arguing the point out. [\QUOTE]

Thanks for understanding exactly why I posted the info. However, you need to look at the msds (can be found online or call the mfg) for the type cabosil you are using to know whether it's the hazardous type or not. You have to be specific matching the product to it's msds. "Cabosil" (several are available) is a trademark name of Cabot Labs and what you are using may be under another company trademark name. I still use the P100 organic/hepa (99.97% efficient) filters for anything related to glassing but anytime I can reduce toxic exposure I do it.

bp

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: All You Need To Know About Fillers From the 'Pros' and 'Cons'

... but anytime I can reduce toxic exposure I do it. bp

Again BillP .. I thank you for your input on the pros and cons about "cabosil" .. but thats NOT what this thread is about...

You are more then welcome to start your Own thread about the "cabosils that we should be using" ..

This thread is about Small Gel Chips/Dings/Scratches .. using the needed materials from start to finish..

If you would like to Add something ( other than Organic Cabosil fillers are better then XYX ) then please post up your knowledge ..

The tools and materials for Small repairs are Simple .. Hold your Breath if your mixing up 1oz of gel if you wish ( I personally dont use a respo when making a batch of gel paste to fill a Ding Spot on a boat .. takes me 30 seconds to mix the Cabosil ( probably the bad stuff ) with the gel until I can take a breath..

When I apply/mix .. I wear a respo ... gloves .. eye protection ..
When I sand/prep/spray .. I wear a respo..gloves ..eye protection ..
When I buff .. I wear muffs..gloves..eye protection..

Unless your suggesting that the users dont have to use protection mixing costic Resin with your Food grade Cabosil. .. great .. the cabosil is food grade .. the resin I doubt is "resporitory safe" .. use a respo Period when ever your dealing with these chemicals/agents/fillers/resins/grindings ... etc ..

Stop with the Food grade cabosil debate .. thats not what this thread is about ...

YD.