ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

[180shabah]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

...and what are you doing to correct the broken "spine"????

When are you going to pull up the sole so that you know what it really needs?

 

[seabob4]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

On a "classic" boat, an Aquasport, a Mako, a Seacraft, I'd put the effort into doing the proper rebuild, which is what she needs. On this boat? Strip it, and off to the landfill she goes...

 

[Jeep Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Chris,

Excellent question! I do believe it is. Again, this is a VERY old Crestliner and I believe there is no foam in between the layers, just rotted wood at this point. I will to use needle-nose players to pull some material out from between the crack tonight. I also think that there is only about an inch or two space between the layers. To date, I have not seen a spec of foam come out of this hull.

Ahh, Crestliner. I was wondering if it was one. My old Crestliner was built like yours, and like you, I questioned the hull integrity. After a bit of soul searching as to rebuilding, I decided to cut it up and haul it away. After taking the Sawsall to it, I knew I made the right decision. There was a layer of wood between the inner and outer fibreglass, and it was completely rotted.
At this point, it's the pile of trash or the pile of cash.

 

[E_Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Gentlemen,

While I appreciate each and every response, I have already made the decision to keep the hull even as a backup and make an attempt to repair it as a project at the very least. I guess you can say it has some sentimental value since its my first.


* Besides foam or Balsa wood, what else can I use to stuff in between the layers that would provide good buoyancy and would not be affected by future water intrusion?

* After I cut a big rectangle out of the floor area and finish the work there, should I reuse the same rectangle when I re-patch (resin + hardener + mat around the sides) the floor?

* If the answer to the previous question is yes, how many layers of mat should I use around the sides of the rectangle to ensure that I have a strong bond between the rectangle I cut out and the rest of the hull?

Ahh, Crestliner. I was wondering if it was one. My old Crestliner was built like yours, and like you, I questioned the hull integrity. After a bit of soul searching as to rebuilding, I decided to cut it up and haul it away. After taking the Sawsall to it, I knew I made the right decision. There was a layer of wood between the inner and outer fibreglass, and it was completely rotted.
At this point, it's the pile of trash or the pile of cash.

 

[180shabah]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

* Besides foam or Balsa wood, what else can I use to stuff in between the layers that would provide good buoyancy and would not be affected by future water intrusion?

When the coring is gone, you don't STUFF something back in there. You need to COMPLETELY lose either the inner or outer "skin" and start over. Will you be able to get a perfectly straight, untwisted boat when you "reglass" it. I doubt it. It is possible, but you need to know what you are doing from the very beginning to the end. There have been some VERY intense restorations that have been detailed on this site (restoration forum) but none of them took on something so extensive as a learning project.

I suggest you spend some time reading through the restoration forum and some of the boat building websites before you do anything else.

 

[E_Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

I understand what you are all saying. Assuming I do it the proper way and tear up the inner layer (floor), what materiel can I put between new floor and the bottom layer that would provide good buoyancy and would not be affected by future water intrusion in case I go over a rock in the future?

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

I understand what you are all saying. Assuming I do it the proper way and tear up the inner layer (floor), what materiel can I put between new floor and the bottom layer that would provide good buoyancy and would not be affected by future water intrusion in case I go over a rock in the future?

I'd go back with balsa. You can get it in retail quantities at Mertons:

http://www.mertons.com/Floatation/scored_end.html.

When properly used it lasts a LONG time. Checkmate has been building balsa cored hulls forever, I'm just about done with a total restoration of a '79 Checkmate and the core was in perfect condition after all those years.


As far as providing buoyancy, that's kind of a misunderstood thing. Foam, coring, whatever doesn't normally have anything to do with floating a boat. It's just a matter of less weight in the boat = more buoyant; more weight in the boat = less buoyant. Where buoyancy / flotation comes into play is if the boat ever gets swamped, then it's a matter of the density of the material, i.e. it's weight vs. how much water it displaces.

 

[E_Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Hey Metric thanks for the suggestions, anything besides foam or balsa? I'd like something that wouldn't be affected by water intrusion at all, heck even Styrofoam seems feasible - It isn't effected by water much, its relatively cheap, and it has plenty of cushioning. But the question is would it keep the hull afloat temporarily in case of an emergency...

I'd go back with balsa. You can get it in retail quantities at Mertons:

http://www.mertons.com/Floatation/scored_end.html.

When properly used it lasts a LONG time. Checkmate has been building balsa cored hulls forever, I'm just about done with a total restoration of a '79 Checkmate and the core was in perfect condition after all those years.


As far as providing buoyancy, that's kind of a misunderstood thing. Foam, coring, whatever doesn't normally have anything to do with floating a boat. It's just a matter of less weight in the boat = more buoyant; more weight in the boat = less buoyant. Where buoyancy / flotation comes into play is if the boat ever gets swamped, then it's a matter of the density of the material, i.e. it's weight vs. how much water it displaces.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Well, there's this:

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9804/index.html


or this:


http://www.mertons.com/Floatation/scored_foam.html


My GUESS is that a foam core would be strong enough, but I've only ever built an airplane with that type of construction. It's not going to have the impact resistance of end-grain balsa, and you'll be on your own for verifying that it's a safe boat after you get done.

Also, you can't use polyester resin with PVC foam, you'll have to go with epoxy.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

I am in the line that would love to know what there is a supply of MUD inside your boat?????

after this line ends i am going to get in the line that thinks there are too many FREEEEEEEE boats out there with bad motors and rotten trailers that people cant get rid of....

go get one!!

as for SLOWING down...

sometimes that isnt a choice

i have been in really really rough seas....

if you go too slow you get washed over from the rear,

I remember the day the boat was falling through air when going over waves....

had to bail( pun intended) on that idea and try to quarter away with the waves.....


but going too slow has your motor underwater on the backside of ther trough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you play the hand you are delt..

i cracked the aluminum bench seat in half that day!!!

here is my makeshift patch:

bob

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

No matter what you decide to do....repair or replace....I hope you have learned a valuable lesson.

When the boat starts to slam and pound in waves/chop, it's time to S L O W down.....until the slamming stops or is reduced to just a mild "bump"

Mild bump - You dont boat in the Gulf of Mexico do you? Nastiest chop around. It's a quick interval disoriented mess most of the time. Your gonna bounce around a bit to get 30-40 miles out, fish and come back in one day. At the mild bump speed it would be a one week trip.

 

[180shabah]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

I understand what you are all saying. Assuming I do it the proper way and tear up the inner layer (floor), what materiel can I put between new floor and the bottom layer that would provide good buoyancy and would not be affected by future water intrusion in case I go over a rock in the future?

I think your are not understanding what the coring material does. It is NOT there to provide boyancy. It's purpose is to provide something to hold the FG in the right shape until th resin cures. It also, to a lesser degree allow some flexability and shape retention memory. Wood cored boats are less likely to deform due to improper storage and impact than foam cored boats, but a foam cored hull MAY return to it's original shape if allowed to You are bulding a new hull, period. This is not an impossible task, people do it all the time, but you are complicating it by reusing your outer skin. This means you have to find a way to make sheet material, either foam or wood, comform PERFECTLY to an existing fiberglass surface with compound curves.

You reall need to CLICK HERE the go to boatbuilding methods and read the first and third types.

 

[E_Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Metric,

Looks good. Is there anything else that you can suggest? I just don't know if this material is worth it given the hull's age.

Well, there's this:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9804/index.html
or this:
http://www.mertons.com/Floatation/scored_foam.html
My GUESS is that a foam core would be strong enough, but I've only ever built an airplane with that type of construction. It's not going to have the impact resistance of end-grain balsa, and you'll be on your own for verifying that it's a safe boat after you get done.

Also, you can't use polyester resin with PVC foam, you'll have to go with epoxy.

Shabah, I understand what you are saying but based on the following thread I also understand that the foam is what kept this boat on Lake Erie from hitting the floor.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=427206

I think your are not understanding what the coring material does. It is NOT there to provide boyancy. It's purpose is to provide something to hold the FG in the right shape until th resin cures. It also, to a lesser degree allow some flexability and shape retention memory. Wood cored boats are less likely to deform due to improper storage and impact than foam cored boats, but a foam cored hull MAY return to it's original shape if allowed to You are bulding a new hull, period. This is not an impossible task, people do it all the time, but you are complicating it by reusing your outer skin. This means you have to find a way to make sheet material, either foam or wood, comform PERFECTLY to an existing fiberglass surface with compound curves.

You reall need to CLICK HERE the go to boatbuilding methods and read the first and third types.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Some of you folks don't understand what a cored hull is. The core provides all the structural strength there is in the boat. There are no stringers, frames or keel. The "mud" that was reported, was rotted core material.

To fix that boat you must replace the core with a structural material. I used 3/4" plywood. 1X2 balsa or spruce is another alternative, although without a mold, that will be tough to recreate the original shape of the hull.

The foam floatation is totally seperate from the core. A chunk in the bow and a chunk in the stern is likely what the original floatation was. My Crestliner has an air-filled compartment in the rear. This also leaked, and I sunk on the ramp one day.

Good luck with the repair. I for one would junk it!

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Metric,

Looks good. Is there anything else that you can suggest? I just don't know if this material is worth it given the hull's age.

I really don't believe you're going to find anything less expensive that would provide suitable strength. The core material, combined with fiberglass skins, provides pretty much all of the hull's strength, so you don't really want to be taking shortcuts. While it's not an impossible task to replace the core, it's a significant amount of work and you've got to ask yourself if this boat is really worth the cost and effort.

 

[180shabah]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Shabah, I understand what you are saying but based on the following thread I also understand that the foam is what kept this boat on Lake Erie from hitting the floor.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=427206

That boat had flotation foam poured/sprayed into several empty cavities of a FINISHED aluminum hull. This is completely different from any coring material on a FG boat.

YOUR boat used wood not foam for the core in the hull. It has rotted, your hull is shot. It would be simpler to build a NEW hull than recore an existing one. Most likely stronger too.....

 

[E_Man]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Deleted.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

pounding a square peg in a round hole here.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

Maybe if I put this another way here.

The cost of the materials alone will exceed the value of that hull.
When you add up the cost of the fiberglass mat, resin, hardener, primer, paint, foam or whatever you try to fill the voids with, it will no doubt cost more than just buying a better hull.
The bottom line is that the hull will never be safe or reliable. The only fix would be to completely gut that hull, down to a single layer of glass, reline it with a core material, and reconstruct a new inner hull from scratch. All of this again would be on top of a broken, damaged, old outer hull.

Any such repair would be the equivalent of fixing a rusted out pipe with duct tape or considering a plastic trash bag and duct tape a permanent repair for a missing window in your car.

Take a look on Craigslist, there's hundreds of boats listed for cheap all the time.
For example, last night I picked up an all but turn key 16' boat, motor and trailer for $300. Someone just didn't want it anymore. My total investment to get it to the water today was a new battery and a water pump impeller just in case. No cracks, no damage, runs great, nice trailer. Your looking at more than that in just materials to fix that hull you have there. Today I upgrade the motor and install my seats. The rest will get sold and no doubt net me more than I paid for the boat, battery, and impeller.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: ALMOST SWAMPED! Large floor crack after bouncing on waves. PICTURES INSIDE

In his deleted post, he said he wouldn't consider not fixing it. He had photos of the inner hull--looked like the floor of a neglected kennel for large dogs. The advice has been consistent--it is impractical, unfeasible and risky to repair/rebuild. He rejects the advice.