Am I an idiot for even considering this?

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Hey everyone, I posted this at The Hull Truth and was advised by a gentleman over there to post it here.

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post. I'm also new to boating (sort of) and am looking for a bit of info.

Since this is my first post, a bit of background: I'm a middle-aged guy who wasn't been on a small boat for 35 years. When I was in college, my brother had a 16' boat on Lake George, NY, and my buddies and I used to have a lot of fun on it. But I've had no experience with boats since the 70s, except for riding on commercial boats.

I'm a private pilot. A year ago, I was trying to decide if I should buy an airplane or a boat and the airplane won. I bought a used Cessna and have had a blast with it. But now I'm once again thinking of buying a boat. When buying a plane, you really need to think about your "mission" because it's really easy to buy a good plane for the wrong mission. With that in mind, I've been thinking about what I'd like to do with a boat and I think I've got a handle on that. My family is mainly older and I'm not going to be pulling water skiers (although it might be nice to be able to pull a tube from time to time). Instead, we'd be much more into getting onto Lake George, cruising around, enjoying the sunshine, casually fishing, enjoying the sunset, etc. My parents are in their 90s and while they're doing great, I need a boat that's stable. I'd also like to be able to have four adults spend the weekend on the boat from time to time, possibly including putting it on the Hudson River and cruising down the river or out the canal or whatever. So we're looking for a casual, quiet kind of experience. I've investigated slip prices on Lake George, winter storage, insurance, etc. and that hasn't scared me off yet. I've also pretty much decided that I would probably not be interested in trailering a boat myself.

From my experience in the 70s, I remember that Lake George (32 miles long, 3 miles wide, 500' deep, mountains on both sides) can have bad weather show up in a real hurry. With that in mind, I knew that I wouldn't be looking for a 16' boat. Over the last week, three different people whose opinion I trust have all said that 23' was the smallest boat they'd be comfortable with on the Lake.

I've sunk about $70K into the plane in the last year (including an unexpected $12K top overhaul last summer). I'm not of the mind to put that kind of money into another toy right now, although I do understand that when you're talking about engines anything can happen. But there are a ton of boats for sale for what seem to me to be very low prices and this (finally) is my question. I've seen a lot of older 23' to 29' boats advertised from $10K up to about $25K. These are typically 1986 to 1993 models. Some of them (Carver 28' Mariner, Wellcraft 28' Monterey, Sea Ray 270 Sundancer) seem attractive older boats. I wouldn't buy any boat like this without getting a surveyor involved and maybe also a mechanic. But am I an idiot to even be thinking about boats like these? Is it possible to find a good older boat that would fit the kind of mission I have in mind? Or is this a pipe dream?

Thanks, everyone. I look forward to getting to know some of you and I greatly appreciate any and all advice.
 

This_lil_fishy

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
841
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Someone here has a quote that is something like " Money is just the tool I use to obtain my toys ". Hey if you wanna get into boating and have the income for it...have at it. You'll likely love it or hate it. That said, it might be in your best interest to try to find a decent smaller boat so you can get the hang of 'piloting' it before jumping into a pocket cruiser. Unless you are just looking for a bowrider, but even then, the larger boats can be a bit tricky, specially when docking or loading on the the trailer. Otherwise enjoy..the good weather is on it's way!

Ian
 

smokeonthewater

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
9,838
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

not a dream at all.... if 25k is what you consider cheap then finding a cheap older boat in good shape should be REAL easy..... something like mine should fit the bill very well..... As a pilot I would expect that you have a VERY good understanding of what can happen when things go wrong and the need to maintain your equipment....

One term for you to watch for watch for while shopping is LOA... length on axis... People have a nasty habit of measuring the length of a boat including bow pulpit and swim platform to advertise as a bigger boat... example is a wellcraft 26 aftcab advertised here locally as a 28'... Another thing to look for are integrated swim platforms.... generally they are included in the stated length where bolt ons are usually in addition to the boat length... Point of all that is don't assume that two 28' boats are the same size untill you go look at them

I have seen several good deals on 31' wellcraft st tropez lately... of course since that's the big brother to mine I'm forced by man law to drool over them... LOL

I'm 6'4" and the headroom in the cabin of my monte carlo is about 6'2" ... my buddy's 28' regal commodore has about 6'6" :mad: ....A little detail like that can make all the difference.... It's quite annoying to stoop while cooking my breakfast for me in my 30's.... for someone in their 90's it could be a bigger concern

I don't know if planes are the same way but with boats it's all about shopping you can pay 30k or 10k for pretty much the same boat depending on how well you shop... boats are often one of the most neglected maintenance vehicles around and there are serious deals to be had for someone who is handy.

Good luck and welcome to iboats
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Thanks, Ian!

I was pretty good at handling that 16' boat back in the 70s so I'm hoping that at least a little of that will come back. I intend to take a safe boating course sometime real soon. And, if I get a boat, I'll probably hire someone to spend some time on board with me as an instructor.
 

waterinthefuel

Commander
Joined
Nov 15, 2003
Messages
2,728
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

I'm a pilot AND a mechanic. If you'd like to know what you are allowed to do to your airplane WITHOUT A MECHANICS LICENSE, just let me know! It's a pretty substantial list!!!
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Thanks, Kevin.

Cheap is relative. :D Before I looked at the price of boats, I was expecting them to be $125K... dunno why but these big cabin cruisers just looked like they all should be. When I saw some prices below $25K, I was kind of amazed. I guess I set myself up for that one!

It is a lot like shopping for a plane. Older planes can be good deals or bad ones. One thing planes have going for them, though, is that all planes have to have an annual inspection by a certified inspector. On a small plane, that's probably $1K each and every year. On top of that, if the inspector finds anything wrong that affects the plane's airworthiness, it has to be fixed or the plane cannot be flown again. For a small plane, that can easily be an unexpected $5000 repair bill. But the flip side is that you know that someone has been looking carefully at every plane at least once every year. But you can still have lemons and runout or mistreated lemons.

I appreciate the info on length: good thing to be looking out for. And thanks for the welcome.
 

BTMCB

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
761
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Welcome and good luck in your search for you new toy. As a pilot, you already know the importance of safety, staying current, navigation (more so if IFR) and planning. As an aircraft owner and A&P you already know how important maintenance is - not much difference between the importance of airworthiness and seaworthiness!! As the buyer of a used aircraft, you knew what to look for and what to expect. So, in answer to your question.............NO, you are not an "idiot"..............Good luck and welcome back to boating.
Brian
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,750
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

I'll probably hire someone to spend some time on board with me as an instructor.

Yes, most definitely, everything is different on a boat that size.


Any of the boats you mentioned should do nicely.

Welcome aboard.
 

scoutabout

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,568
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Welcome! Like Bubba - I was immediately thinking pontoon but also don't know your waters. Those things are great when it comes to boarding older folks.

As has been mentioned before, you will find that boating, while it can be an expensive past time, doesn't hold a candle to owning an aircraft (relatively speaking). That top end work you paid $12K for was probably on either a Lycoming, Continental or similar motor, right? Super simple technology but the rigourous safety requirements of even General Aviation mean laying out that kind of cash for certifiied aircraft parts and labour. The same work on a boat motor would be maybe tenth the price - especially if you did all the disassembly / assembly yourself and just farmed out any necessary machine work.

Your instinct to get a marine surveyor for any serious boat is spot on. There can be all sorts of nasty surprises waiting in the dark depths of soggy bilges and other out of sight places. Places that may have been ingnored since the day the boat was delivered.

Anyway, enjoy the search. As they say, the day you buy the boat will be one of just two of the happiest days of your life...:D
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Thanks, guys! I appreciate the welcome and the advice.

I did look at pontoons and even houseboats but somehow they just don't tickle my fancy. I need something stable but I want to at least pretend that I can push the throttles forward and go fast. :D

Brian, I'm not an A&P -- just a private pilot. I am working on my instrument rating and, at the rate it's going, figure that I'll probably be done in maybe four or five ... years. :D I'm finally at the point where approaches are actually starting to make sense and I can more or less fly an ILS. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel some day!

Scout, yup, that was a Continental. I had a partial engine failure on takeoff last summer. At 450' above ground, an exhaust valve stuck and the entire plane started shaking badly. That was an exciting five minutes but I managed to get it safely to a nearby paved airport. I'm VERY glad to hear that work on boats can be less expensive. :)

And, Roscoe, thanks for confirming that hiring someone to teach me the ropes is a good idea. I was hoping that wouldn't be something that people would laugh their heads off at. :cool:
 

This_lil_fishy

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
841
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

And, Roscoe, thanks for confirming that hiring someone to teach me the ropes is a good idea. I was hoping that wouldn't be something that people would laugh their heads off at. :cool:

Not on this site, heck even if you had a little 14' tinny, saying you're getting someone to teach you the ropes would probably get you lots of respect around here. I did find even going from my little fiberglass to the 20' boat I have now took some adjustment, particularly in high winds. We do plan on moving up to a much larger pocket cruiser maybe next year as a second boat, but I wanted to get some seasons in on this one first. I find launching and retrieval very simple, however I am still having problems docking at a marina. I myself am getting an old salt (neighbor) to come out with me next time I rent a slip to give me some pointers...so no shame. :D

Ian
 

airdvr1227

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
1,666
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

I'd also like to be able to have four adults spend the weekend on the boat from time to time,

You'll need to go to the large side of things for that. Most likely a 22' boat won't really give you that option.
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

You'll need to go to the large side of things for that. Most likely a 22' boat won't really give you that option.

Thanks. I've started looking at 27' to 30' boats and have been told that the four people had better be VERY good friends or they'll be tired of each other in a hurry even on a boat that size.

I may need to rethink that part of my mission. :D
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

I suppose I should clarify that I was possibly thinking of just leaving them at home on overnight trips. :D
 

26aftcab454

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
1,510
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

I have a 1984 26ft Wellcraft aft cabin-yes Smoke-add 3 1/2ft for swim platform & pulpit-LOA 29 '1/2 " LOL and it could be uncomfortable for 4 overnight unless they are family or realy good friends. the head and the aft cabin are separated only by about 2 inches of paneling and carpet. :eek:( think taking the Browns to the Superbowl)
but it work great for a couple with small kids.

You need a comfortable boat that is stable.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,064
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Well....... there are not too many choices for dealers in our area....

when you determine the size...... the type...... set aside $500 and get an adequate survey of the boat (maybe a seller will split the cost with you ;))

Remember the negative advertising on the Northway years ago ....... Just be careful and selective on who you purchase a used boat from.

I am right across the boarder from LG...... when you decide let me know and I will help put some feelers out for you :)

Welcome to iboats!!!
 

qbynewbie

Seaman
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Thanks very much, Bob. :)

Although I grew up in Glens Falls, I was in Boston for over 30 years. I've only been back in this area for about five years. I don't recall hearing anything about negative advertising. If there's anything you are comfortable sharing, I'd appreciate it.

I'm looking at a few Sea Ray boats right now but it's more the kind of "Hmmm.... do I REALLY want to do this? :D" looking. But I think I do and I'll probably get pretty serious about a boat pretty quickly.

By the way, if I were to buy a cruiser that was maybe 29' long, would it be possible and not prohibitive to get it moved from Lake George to Lake Champlain on occasion? Or is that likely to be a very expensive proposition?

Thanks again. :)
 

bill lewinski

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
40
Re: Am I an idiot for even considering this?

Unless I missed a post somewhere there is another consideration not yet
mentioned. Up until last year all the boats I have driven have been I/O's.
Last year my buddy bought a 27ft Sportcraft with a single Inboard engine.
Now this is just my opinion but it seams the I/O's are a lot easier to control
at slow speeds and in tight quarters.
 
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