Am I being taken??

[cristileigh]

My boat 1991 Force 150HP is having trouble with idle. When we start the boat in full idle it will start. When we pull it back to idle to put in gear the engine dies.
We cleaned the carbs and replaced needles, replaced a diaphram on the fuel pump, cleaned the filters, New battery, new vacume lines, new spark plugs, new starter. When we tried to start the boat it was the same. The boat would start, but it would not idle. If we could get the boat in gear i'm sure it would run, but when we pull back to idle it dies.
We gave up and took the boat to a mechanic. The mechanic calls and said he did a compression test and that the engine is full of water and pouring out the cylinders and carbs. He says the engine will have to be taken apart to see where the water is coming form. OK. My husband and I have been working on this boat for three weeks and we never once saw water. I told him its impossible that the engine will run full of water and just won't idle... He said "Yep, thats it... it runs but won't idle because water is in the Engine and its not from the gasoline."
I had 40 gallons of pre mixed gasoline in my boat and he wanted $60.00 to drain it and $60.00 for diagnosis before he even looked at it. I drained it myself and took it to him empty.
I told him I would be picking up my boat and paying the $60.00 diagnosis. I think this guy is a CROOK! Is this possible?? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Alpheus]

Re: Am I being taken??

He must think its a steam engine. I would love to hear his explanation on how an internal combustion engine can turn over, let alone run with a cylinder full of water...


You may have a blown head gasket. Did he try and run the engine on the muffs, letting it sit awhile with the water running and then water started coming from the cylinders and or carb???

 

[asm_]

Re: Am I being taken??

sounded like you know more about boat then this guy. Not good. Find a different mechanic.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Am I being taken??

you dont really say wether you were running the motor on muffs when you were working on it.
if not he is probably spot on

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Am I being taken??

sounded like you know more about boat then this guy. Not good. Find a different mechanic.

the mechanic did do the compresion test.

i dont see where they did that.

 

[northernmerc]

Re: Am I being taken??

If you don't trust him, get a second opinion. You also could do a compression test yourselves and check for water in the cylinders. One way to do that might be to put the boat in the water or hook up the motor to muffs - with the spark plugs removed - and turn it over enough to see what happens.

 

[cristileigh]

Re: Am I being taken??

I ran the engine with muffs on and the Engine would start and run but would not idle.. I did not do a compression test because I do not have a compression tester.
I did call another Mechanic. He told me to do a compression test ( I guess I'm going to have to break down and buy a compression tester)
He said it is possible to get some blow by of water but not as this mechanic was describing. He said the engine can't be full of water and water pouring out of the carbs and run. he said a blown head gasket could cause water to blow by on the cylinder.
How much would that typically cost to repair?
I'm still not buying that its a blown head gasket.. maybe I am just in denial HA!

 

[Brewman61]

Re: Am I being taken??

Get a good mechanic to take a look at it, but don't commit too much $$ to the repairs. Any major repairs and you might be better served replacing the motor. Have the compression test done and see where you are.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: Am I being taken??

Everyone seems to be missing the whole point. It really sounds as if the mechanic did something to this motor and now there is water getting into the cylinders. Perhaps he ran it without muffs.

You'll never get him to admit he did anything wrong. Fromt there you have 2 choices and you now what they are.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Am I being taken??

Now you have to do a compression test and adjust idle speed.

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Am I being taken??

I agree with everyone on the compression test, but the idle could be as simple as an adjustmment like foodfisher said. The point where you can pull the throttle back to is not always the correct idle point.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Re: Am I being taken??

even if the motor does need a head gasket, it isnt a major job to replace one like it is in a car. When I did the ones on my Evinrude last year (similar issues, wouldnt idle worth beans, damp/wet plugs, yet good compression) it took about 2 hours, and that was going slow. Force motor may be a bit more difficult, due to placement of different items, but I still can' imagine that it would be too hard to do.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Am I being taken??

Here's a link to a thread in the FAQ's that should be helpful. Good luck!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=391323

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Am I being taken??

best of luck trouble shooting from here on

 

[lncoop]

Re: Am I being taken??

If you don't want to spring for a compression tester you can borrow one from Auto Zone. They have a loan a tool program. They're not expensive though.

 

[cristileigh]

Re: Am I being taken??

I'm facing reality more today. I talked to the mechanic again. He said he attempted a compression test and rusty water shot out of the cylinders and he could not get a reading. I'm still a little shocked.
I do recall when we changed the spark plugs I saw a droplet of water on one and I remember being really confused when the other spark plugs had what looked like rust on them. I remember thinking "how could they be rusted, we just replaced them a month ago." "Is that rust"... "what is that"... and moved on.
The mechanic says he would have to open up the power head to see where the water is coming from. He doesn't think its worth the cost and I should replace my Engine with a new Merc 6 cyl. because he feels my boat is under powered. (????) I didn't. I felt my motor was fine and its what came on my boat originally.... my boat has a 91 150hp Force on a Bayliner 2609 Rendezvos. Its a 26ft Catamaran type hull.
The boat is in TIP TOP shape for its age. How do you decide when its not worth putting anymore money into it?

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Am I being taken??

tough pill to swallow

at sea level and for what you are using the boat for, if your happy with the 150 hp i would stick with it.

as for a re-power especially to a new unit. thats tough to spend on a used boat.
not knowing your boat or motor condition i think your best bet is to repair what you have. this is taking into consideration your boat is next to worthless in a non-running state and you were happy with it before.
you could shop for used out boards but they seem hard to come by in good condition.
maybe someone on the 4-m here can give you a line on a good used one

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Am I being taken??

at this point i would try and get another opinion from another mechanic in your area. ask around, you dont have to have them trouble shoot it again. this might give you a better idea of whats available in your area and you might happen on to someone happy to work on what you have.

in your original post you had started to work on it yourself.
sounds like you have basic skills.

its worth nothing now so you and husband could also consider changing head gaskets your self. nothing to loose but what parts cost and with help from here you might be surprised at what you can do

 

[wan2live]

Re: Am I being taken??

I'm facing reality more today. I talked to the mechanic again. He said he attempted a compression test and rusty water shot out of the cylinders and he could not get a reading. I'm still a little shocked.
I do recall when we changed the spark plugs I saw a droplet of water on one and I remember being really confused when the other spark plugs had what looked like rust on them. I remember thinking "how could they be rusted, we just replaced them a month ago." "Is that rust"... "what is that"... and moved on.
The mechanic says he would have to open up the power head to see where the water is coming from. He doesn't think its worth the cost and I should replace my Engine with a new Merc 6 cyl. because he feels my boat is under powered. (????) I didn't. I felt my motor was fine and its what came on my boat originally.... my boat has a 91 150hp Force on a Bayliner 2609 Rendezvos. Its a 26ft Catamaran type hull.
The boat is in TIP TOP shape for its age. How do you decide when its not worth putting anymore money into it?

I paid 18 bucks for my head gasket for my force 125, it is very easy to do, if you were happy with your engine before you blew a gasket spend a little money and replace the gasket yourself and save a few thousand or find a decent boat tech. Someone will try to sell you another engine to make some money and since most mechanics do not like Force motors they are quick to recommend another manufacturer.

Good luck in what ever your decide on.

 

[cristileigh]

Re: Am I being taken??

I paid 18 bucks for my head gasket for my force 125, it is very easy to do, if you were happy with your engine before you blew a gasket spend a little money and replace the gasket yourself and save a few thousand or find a decent boat tech. Someone will try to sell you another engine to make some money and since most mechanics do not like Force motors they are quick to recommend another manufacturer.

Good luck in what ever your decide on.

I am taking my boat to another Mechanic for a second opinion. I have a strange feeling this mechanic was after my boat. I SWEAR he was pouting when I drove off. He told me I needed a new motor. When I explained that I just don't have the money to purchase a new motor he acted as if he was full of empathy for me. He said "well, I'd love to help you out. I'll buy your boat. How much do you want for it?" I said, "well I know a hull isn't worth the trailer its sitting on with a blown motor, what will you offer?" I wouldn't give a price and he knew I wasn't going to state a price. He then offered me $3500.00 for my boat. I said "awwww well, I think i'll keep it but thanks for the offer". If he is offering me $3500.00 for a 20 Year old boat with a blown motor.. SOMETHING IS WRONG!... I'm taking my boat to someone else and get a second opinion. If this guy is really just an honest guy (I shouldn't be so negative)... Then I apologize.. but I smell something fishy. If he thinks its worth 3500.00 the way it is..then I think its worth fixing. I only paid $4500.00 for my boat.
This boat is very uncommon in this area. I purchased the boat in MO. in the Lake of the Ozarks. This boat was sold in areas with very large lakes. Whenever I take my boat to the lake in Texas... people stare at my boat and ask what it is. There are no boats around here that look like mine. Its rare in this area. Pontoon boats are the thing to have around here and everyone wants one. Well, my boat is like a pontoon boat but its a fiberglass catamaran hull.. that is layed out on the inside like a deck boat.
We have very busy small choppy lakes around here.. and this boat handles the choppy water like its nothing. When I see people headed back to the dock its because their boat is beating them to death. My boat handles it just fine. I don't think I could buy a new boat in this area that would handle better than the boat I have and definately not for what I paid. I think I'll fix what I have.
Thanks everyone.. I'll let ya know what happens.
If you want to see my boat.. I have pictures posted.