Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

[12vMan]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

When it's dark you can mistake things like a broomstick for a gun barrel. They're only human and as tragic as it was, mistakes will happen when there's a situation like this.
Too bad the circumstances are so unreal, being a newlywed with a baby on the way. Tragic.

 

[kkr26]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Even if he was... an officer, well trained in hand to hand combat, also armed with a tazer... reached for his gun first. Why are we giving cops tazers if they are reaching for their guns first still? Are they only armed with tazers so they can torture confessions out of already subdued suspects?

SGTMAJ you are unbelievable to think that the taser is used in that way. Im sure it has been misused by officers. But to classify all officers as using them to intentionally hurt people. If you think you can do it better be my guest.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Your kidding right?


If your in a complex searching for a suspect and it's unknown what he's armed with, you'd have you gun out too, not walking around with your tazer.

Bill

Then they shouldn't have tazers, period.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

SGTMAJ you are unbelievable to think that the taser is used in that way. Im sure it has been misused by officers. But to classify all officers as using them to intentionally hurt people. If you think you can do it better be my guest.

The tazer was/is supposed to be a replacement for the use of lethal force, if you NEVER use it when you would use lethal force, the ONLY two reasons you would use it would be to intentionally hurt/torture someone... or if you're too lazy to do your job. Either way, any officers acting in that mannor, shouldn't be allowed to remain in their jobs. It is a blatant use of excess force to use a tazer on someone when lethal force isn't called for... so if they're going to keep using their guns all the time whenever they feel that their life is threatened (which is the only time they are allowed to use lethal force), then they shouldn't be allowed to carry tazers, or they should lose their jobs.

 

[MIKEY*2007]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

that is terrible glad I live in australia as we have very strong gun control here as two england does, as an outsider looking in maybe america should adopet a stronger stand on guns as you guys are worldly known for your gunho ways please don,t get me wrong aussies and americans have been allies since we were foundered but it seems it works in a lot of countrys not to bare arms here in aus we bare knuckels instead it works better in my mind, here we also use tazers and they seem to work well.the sadest thing out of all this is that unborn child is going to grow up never knowing it,s father and thats all because of a gun.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

that is terrible glad I live in australia as we have very strong gun control here as two england does, as an outsider looking in maybe america should adopet a stronger stand on guns as you guys are worldly known for your gunho ways please don,t get me wrong aussies and americans have been allies since we were foundered but it seems it works in a lot of countrys not to bear arms here in aus we bear knuckels instead it works better in my mind, here we also use tazers and they seem to work well.the sadest thing out of all this is that unborn child is going to grow up never knowing it,s father and thats all because of a gun.

Your cops don't carry guns??

 

[kkr26]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

SgtMaj the fact that you say that means you have no knowlage of the taser and its use. It is less leathal, meaning it is the same as pepper spray or baton. Tasers dont kill people and for you to say they are a sub for deadly force is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Mabey you should do a little research before you post you next response. It is a force option but not deadly by any means. SgtMaj if you are a military man as you screen name makes it sound we will give you a taser and send you to Iraq since they are deadly.

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

that is terrible glad I live in australia as we have very strong gun control here as two england does, as an outsider looking in maybe america should adopet a stronger stand on guns as you guys are worldly known for your gunho ways please don,t get me wrong aussies and americans have been allies since we were foundered but it seems it works in a lot of countrys not to bear arms here in aus we bear knuckels instead it works better in my mind, here we also use tazers and they seem to work well.the sadest thing out of all this is that unborn child is going to grow up never knowing it,s father and thats all because of a gun.

Hey! That's just not fair. The situation in Australia is nothing like it is in the US. I don't think you have nearly as many convicted criminals who need to protect themselves from trick-or-treaters. Where would we be as a nation if our felons didn't have access to assault rifles? Someone's house might get egged.

 

[MIKEY*2007]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

I beg to differ the english don,t carry guns ,as our cops all carry guns and tazers as well ,in the last couple of years there have been a number of mentally ill people shot dead and this caused uproar so tazers were introduced and for head of population we are up there for crime our jails are full our children love watching american tv where nearly every show that screens here is crime related if we all stoped filling our kids head full of violence and hate we would not even be having this conversation ,as we say in aus it,s to late after the horse has bolted .sargent major you sound like your one of the good americans and if i was at war i,d want you right beside me but think about it first as long as we have gun and all the rest of the weapons we have many men like us will keep having this conversation for many years to come i hope not but let,s be realistic,and trust me ausies are just as bad as the land of the free it just you don,t take us seriously until you guys need a back up in a fight as history shows

 

[kkr26]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Well said Mikey

 

[Carphunter]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Sad, really sad. Lets blame the guns for peoples stupid misconduct, again.
Hey, lets outlaw cars, they kill lots of people.
...or lets outlaw steaks, 'cause I know some people who have choked on those.
Makes me sick.
You can't idiot proof the world. People are the problem. Tougher consequences for these crimes, and less slap on the wrist laws would go a long way in this country.

As for Australia,................hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, hardly a crime free country, to say the least. Certainly a country I wouldn't look to to emulate.​

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

SgtMaj the fact that you say that means you have no knowlage of the taser and its use. It is less leathal, meaning it is the same as pepper spray or baton. Tasers dont kill people and for you to say they are a sub for deadly force is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Mabey you should do a little research before you post you next response. It is a force option but not deadly by any means. SgtMaj if you are a military man as you screen name makes it sound we will give you a taser and send you to Iraq since they are deadly.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension skills before trying to respond again, because that post, made you look pretty silly.

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Sad, really sad. Lets blame the guns for peoples stupid misconduct, again.
Hey, lets outlaw cars, they kill lots of people.
...or lets outlaw steaks, 'cause I know some people who have choked on those.
Makes me sick.
You can't idiot proof the world. People are the problem. Tougher consequences for these crimes, and less slap on the wrist laws would go a long way in this country.

As for Australia,................hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, hardly a crime free country, to say the least. Certainly a country I wouldn't look to to emulate.​

In this case, being a convicted felon, I believe it was already illegal for him to own that gun. So the question isn't whether or not to outlaw guns, the question is, how do we stop people who have no longer have the right to own a gun from getting them?

Also, I beg to differ on your last remark. Australia is great country, and if I didn't live here, there's no where else I'd rather be than Australia.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

...it just you don,t take us seriously until you guys need a back up in a fight as history shows

Don't even go there. At the peak of the current war, Australia had 2,000 troops and has suffered 2 casualties. We have lost over 4,100. Georgia, Italy, and others have contributed as much or more. Austrialia's contribution is equivalent to my wife taking a wet mop into a gunfight.

And if it wasn't for the U.S covering YOUR back, Japanese would be your national language right now.

 

[kkr26]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Mabey so but at least I know what I am talking about before I say it.

 

[captquest]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Guns are a fact of life in the USA. When they are taken away from us , it will no longer be the USA>
Another tragic firearm accident. The cop is certainly right in using lethal force any time he is in an uncertain situation. NO cop would go after a suspect with any thing less (than a gun).
without knowledge if suspect is armed or not. The rule he failed was in identifying the target ( as an armed and dangerous suspect).
A gun safety instructor taught me many years ago four safety rules to live by.I have never forgotten them. He claimed these were the rules taught to law enforcement officers and the civilians he taught.These are not the same as military training. He claimed that in EVERY case study of accidental shootings at least one of the rules were ALWAYS broken.
And we spent much time looking at cases. I found this very interesting for sure. Every time I read about one of these "bad" shootings or accidents, he's right again. The fourth one is the most controversial and would require the most training. This is indeed a very significant rule in the world of law enforcement.
They are"
1) ASSUME EVERY GUN IS LOADED. My instructor would hold up a pistol and ask is this gun loaded? The answer is always yes. Then he clears (unloads) the gun and asks again. This time he says "no, I just cleared it and it has not left my hand." He sets the gun down on a table, turns around and picks it up. "Is this gun loaded?" The right answer is yes. You get the picture.
2) NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANY THING YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOOT. Simple enough?
3) KEEP FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL THE TARGET IS "SIGHTED" this one is different from military. he teaches to keep your finger straight out on the trigger guard until you raise it up on the target. Research tests show that by the time you raise the sights or turn toward the target (threat) your finger has time to get on the trigger well before you need to shoot. Reaction time from recognizing the target or threat to firing is about 3/4 of a sec. no significant difference with finger already on the trigger.
and ...
4) IDENTIFY THE TARGET BEFORE FIREING. This is the can of worms, but think about it. We don't mean to ask for his driver's licence as one smart guy replied to me. It means to be as sure as you possibly can that this person is a deadly or grave threat to you or some one else before you decide to part him from this planet! Do you see were the training may be important? We researched many cases pertaining to this one.

interesting thread, my two cents.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

In this case, being a convicted felon, I believe it was already illegal for him to own that gun. So the question isn't whether or not to outlaw guns, the question is, how do we stop people who have no longer have the right to own a gun from getting them?

Also, I beg to differ on your last remark. Australia is great country, and if I didn't live here, there's no where else I'd rather be than Australia.

I had a half page response to this, then I looked back through this thread at some of the idiotic comments that have been made, and decided it wasn't worth it.

I'm glad you love living in Australia, I wish more people would move there.​

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Sooooo, NOBODY ever dies in Australia at the hands of another?? NO knifings? No fatal beatings?? No car accidents?? No getting pushed out of a window?? No drug overdoses?? Ever? Ever since you got rid of guns everybody lives to a ripe old age and dies of natural causes???? That's what you want me to believe?????


EXCELLENT POST, captquest!!! That is exactly the same training and lessons I received and have followed. I'm glad to say I carry a gun everyday and haven't run afoul of the law. I also operate at orange alert ALL the time as I was taught.

Also, kudos to the officer for hitting what he was aiming at....most other officers would have missed and killed someone a block over.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Police have become too quick to shoot and assume all people are out to kill them. There is less risk to thier lives that way.

Just a couple of months ago I had a jerk cop give me the "dont make me put the cuffs on you" after I handed him my ID (on his request) and he told me to back up and I guess I didnt do it fast enough for him. Well lit area with plenty of people around and his backup standing 100 ft away.

Had I copped an attitude like some people do, it could have come to something like this. Instead I know not to mess with trigger happy cops like him.

Ken

 

[QC]

Re: Another case of mistaken identity--Ended tragically

Yes, excellent post there captquest. I have taught my boys the first one and also a variation of the second. I change it to: NEVER POINT A GUN AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL I'll work on three and four.

As far as Australia is concerned I want to make a couple of points as I have spent a lot of time there. Some of my thoughts I posted recently to achris as I was curious about his reaction.

First I find Aussies as the closest thing to Americans on the planet. They think a lot like us with one major exception. They tend to respect and even trust their Government more than Americans do. Generally our culture and our history is to distrust Government and to never let it get too big or strong. I see Aussies feeling their Government is more of a true extension of themselves. Sooooo, if they (Aussies and their Government) outlaw handguns, then it is good and it is right.

One other observation is that Western Australians are even more like Americans than their Eastern brethren . . . annnnnnd, while I have said "I would never live anywhere on the planet other than Southern California", I have modified that over the last two years to include "or Perth".

The fact is I find that Western Australia is a very free and very entrepreneurial place with awesome boating, and outdoorsmen (all Aussies) and a "leave us alone and we'll be fine, don't mess with us" attitude. Very American style and I understand their brethren in the East consider them somewhat neanderthalish like some might think of Americans. Maybe that's why I feel at home there . . . The fact that it is on a West Coast and at approximately the 34th parallel may also have something to do with it. But I can't figure out why it gets colder when I go down the coast, when I get that right, I will report back . . .

While I also enjoy Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, there is something about WA (that's how 'dem 'dere Aussies refer to Western Australia). So maybe Mikey*2007 can think of us like blokes from WA and he might understand us a little better. Never the less "good on ya mate" and we hope you stick around as we have had a lot of fun with our other Aussie members.

Now I am gonna find something that needs killin' . . .