Another Dumb Boater

[boltonranger]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

He was the dumber boater.
He should have known better.
But you should not have expected him to.
That was your first mistake.
You never rely on the other boater.

Your second mistake was going 25 or so through a narrow channel.
At dusk no less. You should have reduced your speed way ahead of time.
Why?
1. Narrow channel.
2. Dusk.
3. Too close to the marina. (Do the waves just stop at that buoy line?)

Any ONE of the above was plenty reason to slow down. But you didn't.

Your third mistake?

You should have sounded your horn with either one or two blasts telling him your intent to pass. I would submit that if you had - that might have given him a second thought to change course or wait.

Of course many boaters don't - but it's one of the 1st questions that get asked in an accident.

Kyle, here's the problem-
You're saying things like "He should have seen me; He could have waited" etc..Sure; But you don't ever know what's in another mans head; even though you think he should see/know what you see, that's simply not reality. You haven't learned that.
You actually DID see him - way ahead of time but did nothing.
I heard you explain how much time there was, distance etc. You don't know if he was aware; but clearly YOU WERE. Unfortunately you are more at fault because of all you saw but didn't do. The other guy? You only know what he should have seen - not what he did see. I know what you saw and thought because you said so.

Here's something that you should think on:
"The law doesn't say who has the right of way; rather who should YIELD the right of way."

The wise boater assumes less than you did; and does more than you did.

Were you "wrong"?
Nope.

Unwise? No question.

So the question is bud; do you want to go through life being right or being wise?

It's up to you. Be safe.
-br

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

He was the dumber boater.
He should have known better.
But you should not have expected him to.
That was your first mistake.
You never rely on the other boater.

Your second mistake was going 25 or so through a narrow channel.
At dusk no less. You should have reduced your speed way ahead of time.
Why?
1. Narrow channel.
2. Dusk.
3. Too close to the marina. (Do the waves just stop at that buoy line?)

Any ONE of the above was plenty reason to slow down. But you didn't.

Your third mistake?

You should have sounded your horn with either one or two blasts telling him your intent to pass. I would submit that if you had - that might have given him a second thought to change course or wait.

Of course many boaters don't - but it's one of the 1st questions that get asked in an accident.

Kyle, here's the problem-
You're saying things like "He should have seen me; He could have waited" etc..Sure; But you don't ever know what's in another mans head; even though you think he should see/know what you see, that's simply not reality. You haven't learned that.
You actually DID see him - way ahead of time but did nothing.
I heard you explain how much time there was, distance etc. You don't know if he was aware; but clearly YOU WERE. Unfortunately you are more at fault because of all you saw but didn't do. The other guy? You only know what he should have seen - not what he did see. I know what you saw and thought because you said so.

Here's something that you should think on:
"The law doesn't say who has the right of way; rather who should YIELD the right of way."

The wise boater assumes less than you did; and does more than you did.

Were you "wrong"?
Nope.

Unwise? No question.

So the question is bud; do you want to go through life being right or being wise?

It's up to you. Be safe.
-br

You are right on many accounts. I am possibly overstating how narror the channel was... its more of a question of useable water.

Inexperience on my part played a role in why I had to stop so abruptly, no doubt.

Sounding the horn, I did not. I will remember to do this in similar situations in the future. There is where I am asking what I could have done better.

What he did and didn't see, I can't really say. What he should have said/did I can.

I would rather be alive that right, no doubt.

 

[boltonranger]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

I hear you Kyle...
Alot of guys couldn't swallow a really blunt post like that.
You're ok with me.
I'd share the water with you any time.


-br

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

Well bud, I asked what I could have done to make it a less stressful situation. I can take pointers.

I still think what he did was dumb and he wasn;t paying attention or caring for the folks in his boat.

It was a stupid human trick to me, but at the same time I want to know what I can do better to stay out of those situations and still have fun.

 

[BAYLINER185]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

Maby your both wrong here..From what I think if that channel is that small NONE of you should be at plane speed if there is not enough room for two boats to safely pass each other PORT TO PORT.

If you and him didnt pass eahother PORT TO PORT then your both to blame.

NO WAKE MEANS NO WAKE you try to tell the harbor patrol your boat makes little wake at plane speed YEA RIGHT!

I have a BAYLINER 185 it thows a hell of a wake at plane speed or any speed over the 1st Drive position wich puts out NO WAKE and thats where you should be at in or near a NO WAKE ZONE period end of story!

And if you saw the boat comming at you and looking like he was gonna cross your bow you should have slowed to let him pass so you could then safely cross his wake as well.

Common sence weather you got the right of way or not why even put your self in that possition to have to resort to finger pointing if there is a collision.

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

Maby your both wrong here..From what I think if that channel is that small NONE of you should be at plane speed if there is not enough room for two boats to safely pass each other PORT TO PORT.

If you and him didnt pass eahother PORT TO PORT then your both to blame.

NO WAKE MEANS NO WAKE you try to tell the harbor patrol your boat makes little wake at plane speed YEA RIGHT!

I have a BAYLINER 185 it thows a hell of a wake at plane speed or any speed over the 1st Drive position wich puts out NO WAKE and thats where you should be at in or near a NO WAKE ZONE period end of story!

And if you saw the boat comming at you and looking like he was gonna cross your bow you should have slowed to let him pass so you could then safely cross his wake as well.

Common sence weather you got the right of way or not why even put your self in that possition to have to resort to finger pointing if there is a collision.

Obviously, I should have got a picture of the area.

I was not inside the No wake line... so no worries.

From the No wake line to the marina.. I should say roughly 50 yards give or take.

Narrow Channel on a lake... let see I am going to guess 30 yards wide... maybe less I would have to go a little closer to the beach side to see how deep it is and where the safe to operate water ends. I would guess boats our size, 4 or more could operate beside each other safely. Passing head on woul not be a problem, but you are nto free to make a 90* turn on something for avasive action.

He was coming at me in a T-fashion, not head on. He was on my port... I was to his Starboard side.

I guess, I have the mind about me when I am coming out of a marina at no wake speed, on idle, I look for oncoming boats in both directions before I throttle up. This is assuming its easier and safer for me to wait that to make someone else slow down or stop hoping they are paying attention to the marina instead of what is just in front of them.

I guess I am the stupid human for assuming others would extend the same courtesy of not cutting off other boaters. To me, this is like pulling out in the main road in front of someone in their car and expecting them to slow down for your car. Then when they get pissed, tell them its their fault for not watching for you and being unsafe... Think about it like that... that makes no sense at all now does it?

Heck, I did my job... I stopped in time and didn't collide with a boat cutting me off. I was aware enough... he was not.

I admit, could have handled it better by blowing the horn. Making sure he saw me and knew i had no intentions of slowing. Also, now I know not to assume others extend the same courtesies on the water as I would and to anticipate stupid things like this a bit sooner so the stop isn't so abrupt.

He needs to learn to not be stupid and pay attention to what he is doing. Stop putting his family in harms way, and not cut other boats off.

Nobody would disagree if put in the same situation. You would be looking at this guy like WTF are you doing man? Plus, I would even to go as far as to say you would have been operating your boats just as I was on this channel and not feel unsafe about it at all. Heck I bet the Scarabs on our lak probably run this area at 60 or so. A picture beats a 1000 words, unfortunately I don't think I will be heading to that part of the lake until next season to snap one.

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

took a trip today.. pics coming

 

[Capt Joe]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

My Father told me when I was learning to drive: "Right of way is something you are given - NOT something you have got"

This has saved my skin numerous times both on the road & on the water

 

[Mark42]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

Now, maybe I am wrong here, so please someone tell me where my reasoning is wrong here. Why, if I am on plane and traveling a sane speed would he have had the right away?

If you were crossing his bow from his port to starboard side, he had the right of way. Inotherwords, if you could see his red port side nav light (on or off) he had the right of way.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

If you were crossing his bow from his port to starboard side, he had the right of way. Inotherwords, if you could see his red port side nav light (on or off) he had the right of way.

Isn't that what I posted in detail earlier in this thread! Yes, but you could end up "dead" right,,, that's all.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

let's beat this dead horse a little longer.

You said " Narrow Channel on a lake... let see I am going to guess 30 yards wide... maybe less I would have to go a little closer to the beach side to see how deep it is and where the safe to operate water ends. I would guess boats our size, 4 or more could operate beside each other safely. "

Think about how small 30 yards really is. A standard ski rope is 75 ft or 25 yards. Would you run 4 boats side by side at 25 miles an hour in that small a space?

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

let's beat this dead horse a little longer.

You said " Narrow Channel on a lake... let see I am going to guess 30 yards wide... maybe less I would have to go a little closer to the beach side to see how deep it is and where the safe to operate water ends. I would guess boats our size, 4 or more could operate beside each other safely. "

Think about how small 30 yards really is. A standard ski rope is 75 ft or 25 yards. Would you run 4 boats side by side at 25 miles an hour in that small a space?

Like I said, as soon as I dg the Camera out of the boat... I will post pics. I think I under estimated the width

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

Here are the pics. One is looking doen the channel. No wake line on Port, and you can see a bit of the land sticking out on the starboard side. That is the neck of the channel.. only a few feet wide. The other shot is from the no wake line to the Marina.

As you can see, it is easy to look sown the channel and this is probably narrower in the pics than the day of the incident as the water is 10ft vertically lower in these pics than the day of. My boat is roughly sitting where I started to feel unsure of what his intentions were, he was coming out where the Marina's Welcome sign is. The heading of my boat is pretty true to the day in question as well, and you can see why, as one of the people I was traveling with know the lake and new about the point coming out into the water.

Looking at the pics, should he have actually ulled out in front of me, I could have probably wnet around him to his staroard side without coming close to the no wake area, but as you can see by the neck inthe channel, its questioable depth. Worse case scenerio I could have poped in behind the No wake line to avoid a collision. I think I understated the room available as I was thinking more of what my passengers were tellign me about the "safe" water to use. He may have not had this information, but he definately would not have cmae up to speed fast enough to avoid me having to overtake him and rock his boat with wake. Though, he would have pulled out right infront of where I was traveling and I was a lot closer to the sign when I saw the nose of his boat coming out with no intentions of stopping. He actually stopped outside the no wake line.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

In the first pic from the no wake line to the land on the starboard side is very narrow. Is this the area where you would run 4 boats side by side at 25 mph?

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

In the first pic from the no wake line to the land on the starboard side is very narrow. Is this the area where you would run 4 boats side by side at 25 mph?

No, Please read above post.
The pic is pretty representative of my heading because of point of land coming out.

Incident happened in the area of the Welcome sign (The Square Whit sign)... that is the area I was discribing. The land is a decent distance form there.

Also, as I said, things are cut in a bit more in this picture because the water is down about 10 vertical feet.

Sp, yes at the sign I think 4 boats could fit side by side.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

from that sign to the land is still to small a space to run four boats side by side at 25 mph. I suppose the pic is not showing something then. I would not try and run four boats maybe two.

 

[kyle f]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

from that sign to the land is still to small a space to run four boats side by side at 25 mph. I suppose the pic is not showing something then. I would not try and run four boats maybe two.

OK, that land justting out is not right up on the sign. Straigh out form the sign there is probably around 70 yards of room, but as you can see, it necks down pretty quickly.

Though, in the day in question I think a good portion of that land was covered.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

there's no such thing as "right of way".

The give way vessel has the responsibility to change heading or speed to avoid a collision, and the stand on vessel has the responsibility to maintain constant heading and speed unless the other vessel fails to act.

In this case, Kyle acted quickly and decisively to avoid a potential catastrophe. Good job.

Looking at the pics, I'd say either the guy didn't notice you, or he doesn't know the rules of the road, either way he's an idiot.

 

[UniOwner]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

I'm reminded of one of the best definitions I've found for seamanship. Seamanship is never placing yourself in a situation that requires it.

 

[KnottyBuoyz]

Re: Another Dumb Boater

there's no such thing as "right of way".

Absolutely! Its been my experience in 27 yrs in the Coast Guard and over 40 boating on the St. Lawrence river that "no one" has the Right of Way, given or taken. You have to be constantly diligent and aware of what's going on around you and know that the other guy(s) have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Compound this with a busy waterway like the 1000 Islands with boats (houseboats, mega yachts, tour boats, jet ski's, go fasters, pontoons, trawlers, canoe's, kayaks) about every 5 seconds crossing your bow, stern, port & starboard on any heading they want and you'll get the picture of what I'm talking about. It's total pandamonium.

It's easy to let your guard down when the waterways aren't crowded so I understand. Anyhow, nice to see you took appropriate action to avoid a collision. Just remember, always approach the situation as if the other guy has no idea what he's doing. You'll know fairly early on in the exchange if he's an experienced boater by the way he handles his craft.