Another surge question

[Pruno]

Just picked up a new-to-me trailer. It has disc surge brakes. I'm also new the the surge brake world. I understand the concept of how they work, but as I'm less than 24 hrs into this I lack the intricacies.
There is a bolt on this setup (see pic) that I'm not sure of the purpose. If it was an owner add-on, or original. Might gut thought is that the PO put it on there to lock out the actuator. Its pretty sloppy in there. Should I take it out? If I leave in in should it be tighten up?
I think its a LP70 actuator, cant find any markings on it though

 

[bruceb58]

You are right...that bolt doesn't look like it belongs there. If you remove those circlips and pull those rods, the entire guts should slide out forward.

By zooming in, I can see its a LP700 Tie Down actuator. Tie Down makes pretty poor quality parts so I would not be surprised if it wasn't working and he locked it out. Hoperfully the disc brakes are not Tie Down too.

 

[Pruno]

You are right...that bolt doesn't look like it belongs there. If you remove those circlips and pull those rods, the entire guts should slide out forward.

By zooming in, I can see its a LP700 Tie Down actuator. Tie Down makes pretty poor quality parts so I would not be surprised if it wasn't working and he locked it out. Hoperfully the disc brakes are not Tie Down too.

Yup now I see the stamp, I wasn't expecting to see it on the trailer frame.
It appears the brakes haven't been in use for a while. I don't trust that single bolt from keeping the actuator locked out, especially onc I get the additional weight of the boat on it. I think my initial step is to pull this out and look it over for broken parts and then slide it back in and bleed down the brakes. If that doesn't work is there another actuator that would fit in and have all the holes line up? Quick trip on google has Dexter looking similar.
Sticker on frame says disc brakes are by Kodiak.

 

[Alumarine]

What you're calling part of the trailer frame with the stamp on it I believe is part of the actuator.
Is that part bolted or welded to the frame?

 

[Pruno]

It's welded to the frame. I suppose thats why I thought it was part of the fame.

 

[bruceb58]

You can buy replacement master cylinders for that actuator. That will be the cheapest option. If that actuator hasn't been used for a while, the master cylinder is almost for sure bad.

 

[dingbat]

Yup now I see the stamp, I wasn't expecting to see it on the trailer frame.
It appears the brakes haven't been in use for a while. I don't trust that single bolt from keeping the actuator locked out, especially onc I get the additional weight of the boat on it. Quick trip on google has Dexter looking similar.

Dextar and Tie Down are one and the same.

I actually choose Tiedown over all others because they offered an aluminum master cylinder. Master cylinder is still great shape after 15 years of saltwater use

Wouldn’t worry about the “lock out” bolt. It’s not carrying a load. I used a 1/4” pin for a couple of months prior to installing a back up solenoid.

 

[Tim in TN]

Just picked up a new-to-me trailer. It has disc surge brakes. I'm also new the the surge brake world. I understand the concept of how they work, but as I'm less than 24 hrs into this I lack the intricacies.
There is a bolt on this setup (see pic) that I'm not sure of the purpose. If it was an owner add-on, or original. Might gut thought is that the PO put it on there to lock out the actuator. Its pretty sloppy in there. Should I take it out? If I leave in in should it be tighten up?
I think its a LP70 actuator, cant find any markings on it though

 

[Tim in TN]

Yes, that hole is where a pin can be inserted to prevent the master cylinder from moving and therefore prevent it from actuating. The PO probably had trouble and locked it out more permanently. It's probably a legal requirement to have working brakes on your trailer.

 

[bruceb58]

Dextar and Tie Down are one and the same.

Dexter bought out TieDown but there is a huge quality/design difference between them. The actuator on my pontoon trailer was TieDown and it was a piece of crap. Same applies to some TiedDown disc brakes that warped...I threw them in the trash.

Dexter Titan brake actuators are superior as well as the Kodiak disc brakes

 

[dingbat]

Dexter bought out TieDown but there is a huge quality/design difference between them. The actuator on my pontoon trailer was TieDown and it was a piece of crap. Same applies to some TiedDown disc brakes that warped...I threw them in the trash.

Dexter Titan brake actuators are superior as well as the Kodiak disc brakes

I'll agree with you on the brakes, but my Tie Down actuator is still in good working condition after probably close to 15 years of service. Saltwater doesn't play well with cast iron master cylinders

Beware....compared the pasts list between the Tiedown and Dextar actuators. Looks like Dextar carried forward the same "crappy" Tiedown components to their own product line.

What's interesting is that most the actuator Dexter offers are either Tie Down or UFP which brings up the question..........does / did Dextar make actuators or just rebrand them?

 

[Pruno]

I'll agree with you on the brakes, but my Tie Down actuator is still in good working condition after probably close to 15 years of service. Saltwater doesn't play well with cast iron master cylinders

Beware....compared the pasts list between the Tiedown and Dextar actuators. Looks like Dextar carried forward the same "crappy" Tiedown components to their own product line.

What's interesting is that most the actuator Dexter offers are either Tie Down or UFP which brings up the question..........does / did Dextar make actuators or just rebrand them?

Thanks for all the replies. Had my hands full with a bunch of different projects. I finally got back around to looking at this. I took the bolt out and topped off the brake fluid, jacked the trailer up and tested the brakes. Everything seems to be in working order. So hopefully this doesn’t end up being another hole in my wallet. I still want to bleed the brakes out though, just for some PM. It did seem surprisingly easy to slide the tongue and stop the tires. Obviously, much easier to stop the tires spin with no weight on them. Having never trailered with surge brakes is this the common complaint with surge, that they activate too easily?

 

[Scott06]

Tie down is not the best but has served me well for the last 6 years that bolt is in the hole to Lock out out braking when reversing take the bolt outand see if the brakes work

 

[Pruno]

Tie down is not the best but has served me well for the last 6 years that bolt is in the hole to Lock out out braking when reversing take the bolt outand see if the brakes work

Yup did that, and I checks out.
It's has a 5 blade hookup, so it should have the lock out solenoid that I need to check out.

 

[dingbat]

Having never trailered with surge brakes is this the common complaint with surge, that they activate too easily?

If anything, they are slow to react. Brake pressure is proportional to the amount of force the trailer is putting on the truck. You hit the brakes, truck slows, trailer delays until it builds enough force on coupler to brake the trailer.

Having said that, performance is good as your bleed job. Compressing the residual air in the lines slows the reaction time and braking pressure.

I live and boat on the coast. No mountain passes to navigate. My biggest braking challenge is the yo-yo (stop and go) traffic on the Capitol Beltway and Rt. 95.

 

[bruceb58]

What's interesting is that most the actuator Dexter offers are either Tie Down or UFP which brings up the question..........does / did Dextar make actuators or just rebrand them?

Actually...the original Dexter line is Titan Dico brands which is still way superior to the TieDown crap.

Are you actually dunking your master cylinder in salt water. Not sure why having a steel master cylinder would even matter. I have electric over hydraulic myself on my Coblat and previous large boat trailer. Way superior to surge.

 

[poconojoe]

My surge brake master cylinder was rusty inside. I got fed up with poor performance, bleeding brakes, changing slave cylinders and that annoying slapping every time I stop and go.

I converted to electric brakes. So much smoother and no banging noises when braking or accelerating from a stop.

I put a big bolt through the actuator to lock it in place. (Like your previous owner did)

My tow vehicle has an integrated brake controller, so it's all fully adjustable and the truck's computer will step in and assist with emergency situations.

 

[Pruno]

We're in the fresh waters of upstate NY, so I'm hoping that rust/corrosion isn't an issue. I don't know, because i haven't checked, whether the master cylinder is aluminum or steel.
In a previous life time I used to tow somewhat regular with straight electric brakes, so I'm familiar with setting brake gain. But never had anything with surge, or electic-hydraulic.
My truck has the integrated brake controller too, but I'm not ready to throw more money at this. The price of the trailer, plus converting to electric brake, plus possibly a couple new tires...ugh just not there yet.
Plus I still have to put the boat on the trailer, so I have no idea how good or bad it is going to handle. Sadly we haven't even launched once yet this season. Once we do I still have to measure the bunks length and angles and compare them to the new trailer, I know it's very close but not exact... post coming soon (I hope)

 

[bruceb58]

A master cylinder isn't going to rust on the inside unless water gets into it.

Be diligent and flush the brake fluid every 3 years and you will never have an issue with corrosion. I flush the brake fluid on all my vehicles every 3 years as well. Most car manufacturers reccomend the same these days.