Another U-Joint Question

[Uraijit]

Hey everybody, I just spent a couple of hours searching, and haven't had much luck.

As some of you know, I bought a boat that had been partially submerged (they forgot the plug). Well they hydro-locked the engine, and sold it to me cheap. I just got done putting a fresh engine in it, and checked the Gimbal Bearing, and it has rusted SOLID. I broke out the old slide hammer/3-jaw puller, and got her out, and now I'm waiting on a replacement. The oil seal was also pretty hammered, so I yanked that out too...

Anyway, clearly water got into the system, and rusted the gimbal bearing, and I've heard that means the U-joints are trash too. They still move fine, but I don't want to seize one up, and be in the market for a new drive/transom/gimbal/coupler, etc. So I'm going to go ahead and replace them now.

I've found a couple of posts with cross-reference numbers for automotive U-joints, but all the posts I've found have been for Alpha-2 drives. Mine's a Pre-Alpha. I'm pretty sure they're different parts. Anybody know what part number I need for an Automotive U-joint?

Also, any tips for driving the new Gimbal Bearing Seal? I plopped down $100 for the gimbal bearing driver, and I'd rather not spend any more for a special seal driving tool. Any tips would be appreciated.

 

[djvan]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

If your u joint belows took on water you should figure out how that water is getting in there. (if the water level got high enough it could come in through the gimble bearing) if the water spent any time in there I would at least inspect the input yoke that the the rear u joint attaches to. It takes a special tool to remove the retaining nut to get a look at this yoke. (don't use a hammer and chisel , not even to disassemble, the retaining nut will probably break)

Here's what probably happened, if water was deep enough in the ujoint bellows to rust the gimble bearing that badly it probably got through the input seal. (this seal is designed to keep oil in the outdrive, not water out of it)

If water got through the seal you probably have or had water in the outdrive.

I had a hole in my bellows that all but took a magician to find. Even after I had the bellows out and in my hands.

Then the water will "sit" right next to where the input seal touches the yoke.

Any amount of time and presto the nice smooth bare metal yoke rusts slightly and either takes the seal out or just damages it enough to leake oudrive oil into the u joint bellows. If the yoke is anything but super smooth it should be replaced. (some say a speedy sleeve works)

While the yoke is not that expensive you do need the retainer nut tool to remove it and to install it properly.

The scary thing is that when you remove the input shaft/bearings, if the bearings are in need of replacement guess what.... more special tools. Or a drop off to the local marina for their services.

I know this can suck, but I've learned to suck it up and repair things as thoroughly as you can. Especially on a boat as it can get really expensive in a hurry if things aren't repaired properly.

Somebody has a quote on this site "why is there never enough time/money to fix it right the first time but there is the second time. Or something like that.

I hope this helps you out.

DougV>

Oh yeah about the u joints I have the auto carquest part number written down somplace. If nobody else speaks up I'll go find it. If you do a search using my username it should come up.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

ive read a couple of post of folks having good luck with aftermarket ujoints. myself. i got mine at the mercruiser dealer..... oem parts always work best i've found...

i think if ya had that much water i'd R&R the ujoints too. also what djvan is saying too. i had water intrusion into my bellows area too. didn't even go look to find out where from. i just R&Red all components... heres what my yoke looked like.

i didn't have water in my drive. but i'd guess i was close to having that occur....

don't know what to drive the seal with short of the right tool. but yer gonna be real happy with yer gimble brg. install too. works real good.... i got lucky. i did my work in the winter and was able to borrow the tools nessessary from my local dealer. i have a pretty good relationship with my dealer though. he knows he'll get my money in the end.....

if ya do the ujoints. yer gonna be having one of them retainer nuts wrenches dj's talking about anyways as ya can't get the back ujoint apart w/o removing the retainer nut. unless ya wanna grind some of the drive ears off the nut itself to get access to the ujoint for removal...

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Here's what happened. The outdrive was COMPLETELY redone before the submersion. The bellows is brand new, gimbal bearing was brand new, oudrive rebuilt, etc. The marina didn't put the plug in after the services, and the owners didn't have the good sense to check it before putting it on the water.

They submerged the boat and water got in through the gimbal. They didn't want to put any more money into rebuilding an engine, after putting all that money into the drive, so they sold it to me.

The boat then sat for a winter after I bought it, and that's why the gimbal bearing is rusted solid. I don't believe there's any damage to the bellows, but if there is, it's not that much more work to just replace it later. I don't see the point of spending an extra hundred bucks, because the bellows MIGHT be bad. Especially when I don't think that it is.

I also don't give a #@*! about using "OEM" U-joints, since I'm convinced that they just pull the joints off some Ford line, and mark them up about 200%, before selling them to me in a red box.

All I want is to know what U-Joints I can buy, without paying a premium for the box it comes in.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

I also don't give a #@*! about using "OEM" U-joints,

All I want is to know what U-Joints I can buy, without paying a premium for the box it comes in.

why don't ya just go to napa and tell them what ya want and be done with it then.... don't forget to specify ford parts too...

since I'm convinced that they just pull the joints off some Ford line

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Well, as soon as I can figure out exactly what joints those are, that's exactly what I intend to do. Hence the question I posted.

I didn't ask whether or not you thought I should pay for a pretty red box, I asked if anybody knew the right part number.

If you want to buy "OEM" joints, then more power to ya! I didn't say there's anything wrong with you wanting to do that. I don't know why you're getting your panties in a bunch over me not wanting to use what you want to, any more than I should be angry over you not wanting to use what I want. It's childish. Get over yourself. Go back to your pretty "OEM" boxes, and let someone with a real answer chime in...

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Man,lighten up! These guys are just trying to save you headaches in the long run!
Put it all back together with the cheapo auto parts then post back in a few months wondering why stuffs leaking or making strange noises.

 

[800sxr]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Check out these guys for boat parts heres a link to the U joints you need.
http://www.masonmarine.net/index.php?cPath=23_25_1850_164_179
It would be much better than auto parts.

 

[djvan]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

I found the numbers in my notes.

Carquest part# 1-6301 ($13.54 May of this year)

Spicer# 5-1306X

The grease zirk (zert?) comes out between two of the caps and are slightly "canted" to one side (like an automotive joint) I faced them toward one another and have no clearance issues.

They also had the heavy duty joint for a couple of dollars more, but they weren't greasable. Call me old fashioned but I like to be able to grease them when doing my annual outdrive removal.

DougV>

 

[djvan]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

I just re read your original post. Those part numbers are for an Alpha 1 Generation 1. I guess they might be the same, sorry for the oversight, Iwas thinking we were talking about an alpha 1 gen 1.

DougV>

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Man,lighten up! These guys are just trying to save you headaches in the long run!
Put it all back together with the cheapo auto parts then post back in a few months wondering why stuffs leaking or making strange noises.

That's fine that they're TRYING to help, but they don't know what they're talking about. It's the SAME EXACT JOINT. I've heard of SEVERAL people, including guys like Bondo and DonS, who's word I actually trust. A computer and an internet connection, does not an expert make.

I fully intend to report back on my luck with the joints. I inspected the joints that are currently on it, and they seem to move freely. I'm going to slap the drive on there for a test run, and see if there's any noise. If there's noise, they'll be replaced with AUTOMOTIVE joints ASAP. If they're fine, I'll still buy the joints, and keep them on hand for when they do go out (Since it's "only a matter of time"). Believe you me though, if I have problems with automotive joints, I'll let everybody here know. I prefer to speak from experience, rather than assumptions, as some folks are so wont to do...

I just re read your original post. Those part numbers are for an Alpha 1 Generation 1. I guess they might be the same, sorry for the oversight, Iwas thinking we were talking about an alpha 1 gen 1.

DougV>

Thanks Doug!
I think they're the same for the gen 1 as the pre-alpha. The ones I need have the snap-ring on the inside of the cap. Does the Alpha 1 use the snap rings on the outside, or inside? Thanks for your help, btw. You seem to be the only person here who's willing to answer a question with anything besides baseless opinion.

 

[djvan]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Snap rings on the inside, I'll bet they are the same. Maybe when you go to napa or wherever have them look up the MR1 and the Alpha 1 maybe this would tell you for sure.

Try this link scroll to the bottom.

http://ebasicpower.com/c/MER4J/Universal+Joints+for+Mercruiser

Tried to link Iboats but couldn't find the needed parts.

DougV>

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Sweet, if they've got the snap-rings inside, they're the right ones. Thanks again.

For the record, your joints haven't exploded, and taken your entire power train out and sunk your boat, have they? I hear it's just a matter of time...

 

[ziggy]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

glad ya got what ya wanted Uraijit.....

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Another U-Joint Question

Thanks, I'm glad too. I don't understand why some folks have to try and make things more difficult than they are.