Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

[backacres]

I have an 87 Four Winns 190 Horizon (3.0L Merc. w/Alpha 1)that I have winterized myself for the past two years with no problem. After everything else is done, I start the anti-freeze process. I have a garden hose cut to a 3' length that I attach to the muffs and fill with anti-freeze prior to starting the engine - I consider this to be "primed", so the impeller isn't sucking air. Next, I start the engine and place the hose into a 5 gallon bucket filled with 2-3 gals. of anti-freeze. I can see the level of the anti-freeze go down and as it gets close to the bottom, I begin fogging the engine.<br /><br />Problem - Upon attempting this same procedure with a friends boat last night (90 something Bayliner, 3.0L Merc, Alpha 1 Outdrive), the antifreeze would hardly get sucked up into the engine. It runs ok on the muffs with garden hose pressure, but has trouble sucking the fluid in from the bucket (no pressure). Does this sound like an impeller problem? Is a pump rebuild in order? This is the first season that he owned the boat, so we don't know when the last time the impeller was changed. Thanks for any help!!!<br /><br />-Jeff

 

[Norm Malcosky]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Hi Backacres,<br /><br />I am not an expert on winterizing Mercs, but my winterizing experiences with my my two Volvos each year may be informative. <br /><br />In past years, I winterized with a 5 gallon bucket full of pink antifreeze. I would also hook it to the muffs with a short hose - but would set the bucket on top of the swim platform. I have a lower outlet on the bucket so the antifreeze would have a bit of pressure (head) at the muffs. If the muffs did not seal correctly, a small amount of antifreeze would leak slowly from the muffs this is OK and shows there is a bit of presure at the water intake.<br /><br />More importantly, I would WARM-UP the engine for about 20 minutes on the garden hose - to assure the thermostat was open. Then I would turn off the engine and attach the bucket of antifreeze to the muff, restart the engine, and drain (suck) the 5 gallons of antifreeze into the engine/stern drive.<br /><br />Prior to adding the antifreeze, I would also change the oil/oil filter - once the engine is warmed on the garden hose. I have fuel injected engines so fogging is not an option, I just switch the engine to a portable 3 gallon fuel tank with stabilizer and 50:1 2-cycle oil. After changing the oil, I restart the engine to circulate the clean oil to all bearings and then go through the warmup proceedure again before finally sucking in the antifreeze and stopping the engine for the season. You may have to alter my proceedures for your Merc.<br /><br />This year I have optioned to merely drain all water from the engine, manifolds, and risers. No antifreeze to mess with and a very "green" solution.<br /><br />In my opinion, it sounds like the water pump in your friend's stern drive should be serviced (replaced) before next season to be safe.<br /><br />erie_guy

 

[Don S]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

The muffs will not seal tight enough to suck the antifreeze out of a bucket like that. What you can do is attatch your short hose to a bucket and let gravity work for you to feed the antifreeze to the pickup. Raise the bucket up above the drive as far as possible. Here is a high quality drawing of what I mean.<br /><br />

<br /><br />One point, use this only if you have a closed cooling system (With heat exchanger). With raw water cooling running on antifreeze only works some times, not all the time.

 

[backacres]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Thanks guys for the great advice and the high quality drawing, Don! This is one of the best forums on the web! I've learned alot from everyone.<br /><br />Take Care -<br /><br />Jeff

 

[mkast]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Don,<br />You could have signed the drawing, then after you're dead, it would be worth some money.

 

[mercrewser]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

I've had to replace engines that have been winterized in this way. Also, antifreeze gets all over the ground. No one can be sure that t-stat is open unless you take it out. Seems easier to dump water from motor and pour antifreeze in.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Originally posted by erie_guy:<br /> winterizing Mercs, but my winterizing experiences with my my two Volvos each year may be informative. <br />

Mercs and Volvo's have different pump systems, Merc in the leg, volvo at the motor... completly different animals.......

 

[Bondo]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Originally posted by Mercrewser:<br /> I've had to replace engines that have been winterized in this way. Also, antifreeze gets all over the ground. No one can be sure that t-stat is open unless you take it out. <br /> Seems easier to dump water from motor and pour antifreeze in.

Seems Easier to Me to Just Dump the Water,..... Period.............<br /><br />I've Never had Freeze Damage,............ Air Doesn't Freeze................ <br />And,..........<br />I'm Not Poisoning My Fish..............

 

[Ram Rod]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

erie_guy,<br /><br />That's all you do is drain the engine, manifolds and risers? Do you store it in a heated building? <br /><br />Thanks

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Bondo, if you drain the motor simply using the block drain plugs, how can you be sure that there isn't some water trapped somewhere that could freeze?

 

[Don S]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Water freezing isn't what causes problems. Freezing water with no where to expand is the problem. If you drain an engine block through the block drains (That's what they were made for.... right) then the water level is so low in the block that any water that is there has plenty of room to expand without causing problem.<br />It doesn't have to be bone dry. Just drained. The only reason for the antifreeze is to help curb corrosion, not keep things from freezing.<br />As stated, Air don't freeze and break things.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Originally posted by Sydmoe:<br /> Bondo, if you drain the motor simply using the block drain plugs, how can you be sure that there isn't some water trapped somewhere that could freeze?

Don's Absolutely Right,.................Again,..... <br /><br />Block Drains will drain the Block,......<br />Manifold Drains will Drain the Manifolds,......<br />Pulling the BIG Hose from the engine mounted Waterpump will Drain Most Everything Else,.........<br />Except for the P/S Cooler,...... That's Drained by pulling Either of the BIG Hoses from It................<br /><br />Then either Remove,.... Or Lower the Outdrive as much as possible,+ You're ready to Go Ice Fishing,... <br />Or Whatever you'd care to do in the Winter................ <br />

This year I have optioned to merely drain all water from the engine, manifolds, and risers. No antifreeze to mess with and a very "green" solution.

erie_guy,........ I'm Glad to hear it,........ Don't forget any P/S Coolers,.. or Fuel Coolers,... Or Whatevers...........<br />

Originally posted by Ram Rod:<br /> erie_guy,<br /><br />That's all you do is drain the engine, manifolds and risers? Do you store it in a heated building? <br /><br />Thanks

Ram Rod,.......... No Heated Garage Needed.............<br /><br /> Air Doesn't Freeze .........................

 

[intrepid]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

I have a question then .. if anti freeze only serves to stop Corrosion <br /><br />then why not add a bottle of corrosion inhibiter ( lubricant) replentisher, you can buy it at wallworld for worn out anti freeze for about 3 bucks.<br /><br />all you have to do is put some corrosion inhibiter in the water you flush through your system and then its corrosion protected for the winter, or is it toxic also ? <br /><br /><br />it comes in 1/2 liter bottles enough for 4 liters of worn out anti freeze .

 

[Weirdwalt]

Re: Anti-freeze sucking slowly into the engine

Antifreeze is just a waste of money and time. I drain em all and never had a problem. Sure a few customers insist on antifreeze, I just mark it the hey up and charge em for installation. I remove the T stat and fill it that way so I don't have to worry about impeller problems. My own boat I just drain it and forget it. If you are worried about corrosion then flush it after every use if in salt water, that will do way more good than using antifreeze in the winter.