Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

[RogersJetboat454]

So Saturday night I get a phone call from my GF's brother asking me if I want a quad for nothing...
Huh?? What's the catch? Well he just recently purchased it used, and found out it had problems, so brought it to a John Deere dealer for repairs.

From what I've found, John Deere tried to get into the ATV market back in the Mid 00's by striking a deal with BRP. The JD Trail buck ATV's are supposedly BRP/Can-Am Traxter or Quest models in JD garb. But anyway, the JD dealer called him back, and told him that the quad needs $5000 dollars in repairs to fix an issue with the CVT . They also told him how terrible Rotax engines are, and all sorts of other non-sense. He now more or less wants nothing to do with the machine, and was even willing to leave it at the dealer if nobody wanted it.

I figure worst case on this is I part it out and make some cash, but I would like to take a stab at fixing it first.

It's a 2005 650 4x4, with a liquid cooled single cylinder engine. To tell you the truth, I haven't set eyes on it yet, so for all I know it truly is a basket case (I will know tomorrow when I pick it up at the dealer). If it really is just a matter of the quad only needing some work to the CVT, I have a feeling the tractor dudes at the JD dealership just had no interest in working on this, and quoted him some ridiculous price to just make him shut up and go away, or make him really pay for the displeasure of them having to fix it for him. From what I can see on the BRP website, if I wanted to buy a complete CVT drive pulley for the Quest, it would be about 1700 dollars. Not short money of course but still not $5000 dollars by any sense. Plus, unless the CVT has blown it's self into a million pieces in the primary cover, I would expect some of it to be salvageable/re-buildable anyway.

I was just wondering if anybody else had any experience with this particular quad or it's BRP brethren.

 

[rbh]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

When you get it, pull the cover off and get the ID# off the clutch, I bet they used a sled clutch, check E-bay.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

If I were you I'd see what sort of price they command in your area and see if putting money into it makes sense. (Unless you just want a winter project.)

This is certainly going to be repaired on a tight budget. Local CL ad's have similar clean looking models for $2800-$4100.

Like I said, I have not laid eyes on this yet, so the CVT problem may just be the icing on the cake, but I at least hope my future BIL wouldn't have bought it if it looked like a complete pile.

If I can repair it at a reasonable (to me) cost, it will live a mostly pampered life hauling my fat a** around the dirt roads at the lake in Maine. Have no real interest in overloading it with gear, or submerging it in a mud pit. Might like to do a little boonie-bashing with it, but nothing overly demanding.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

When you get it, pull the cover off and get the ID# off the clutch, I bet they used a sled clutch, check E-bay.

Good point! Currently no drive clutches available on ebay for the Buck/Traxter/Quest, a few driven clutches which rarely fail (and are short money). But looking at the exploded parts diagram on the BRP site, it certainly looks similar to the drive clutches I've seen on BRP sleds. Have to take a look at that when I get my hands on it, and see if it actually matches anything for sled clutches.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

it will live a mostly pampered life hauling my fat a** around the dirt roads at the lake in Maine.

Ayuh,.... Being a Maineiac in exile, I'm curious,..?? Where abouts,..??

I can't be much help on this thing,...
All I really know 'bout 'em is my bil, up in Maine has a BRP 4 wheeler, that I've ridden a few times,...
But I don't even know which model, other than it's got the swing through area for yer legs, 'n I'm guessin 'bout 500cc's or so...
And, Dan has never mentioned any problems with it...

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Ayuh,.... Being a Maineiac in exile, I'm curious,..?? Where abouts,..??

Family has had a cottage at Sebago lake since '63.

I'm a native/resident Mas**ole, so I'm considered a flatlander, or "from away" by Maineiac/Maine-o/Mainer standards...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Ayuh,... From Away,.....

'ell Sebago Lake is more North Boston, than downstate Maine ain't it,..??

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Ayuh,... From Away,.....

'ell Sebago Lake is more North Boston, than downstate Maine ain't it,..??

Pretty much...

Only 20 miles west of Portland.
Although it usta be more Maine-esq... I guess my grandparents usta have to drive 10-15 miles over horrible roads to either Standish or Gorham to get grocheries... Now you can get practically what ever you want in 10 minutes, and if they don't have it, you make a 20 minute drive to super wally world in North Windham.

In the end though, we have to remember it was ALL once Massachusetts' back 40...
Muuu AHHH Haaa Haaa Haaa!!!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

In the end though, we have to remember it was ALL once Massachusetts' back 40...

Ayuh,... True enough....

Sorry for draggin' yer thread off topic....

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

When you get it, pull the cover off and get the ID# off the clutch, I bet they used a sled clutch, check E-bay.

+1

Even if it does not have a sled clutch I bet one could be adapted.......... however, it will not have any "hold" power at an idle while descending a hill.

Sound like a good project for the right price.

 

[rbh]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

I quickly had a look at the clutch set up on a xt 8oo quad, both the primary and the secondary, visually it looked like the ones on my 700 summit.
Not alot can go wrong with them if the sheaves have'nt exploded, hopefully the inner arms are held up or the spring broke, a cheap and easy fix.
(remember to use never seize or a good graffite instead of grease on the moving parts of the sheaves (grease will get sticky and hold up the movement of the opening and closing of the sheaves).


(Went to an after market comet 104 for my old 1974 640 twin track, far suppierer to the clutches back then)

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Ayuh,... True enough....

Sorry for draggin' yer thread off topic....

No worries Bond-O, this whole thread is off topic for a boating forum. You're one of the guys that helps the people the most in the forums, AFAIC you can take this one off course as much as you want. After all, it's dock side chat, and I'm not expecting hard core answers here. A little levity and BS'in is fine by me...

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

So I picked up the machine this morning...

The skeptical look on the dudes face at the front counter when I first walked in and asked about it was reassuring... Turns out it's a little bit more than an issue with the CV system.

From what I can see the CV system is all there in the box-o parts they gave me. According to the mechanic out back, he believes there is a problem with the gears inside the transmission, which is all conveniently housed in the engine case. In other words, I'm going to have to start at the head, and work my way down to splitting the engine case to see whats up. The original complaint is the quad has reverse, but that's all.

They included some story (with the file folder full of paper work) that they had printed off the Internet about a guy with a 650 Quest that lost it's transmission while plowing snow, and his ordeal at several shops including a BRP dealer that refused to work on it, and told him the engine/transmission design is junk.


Of course being the inquisitive one I am, I'm going to have to gut this thing and see it with my own eyes. According to the JD dealer, the engine gasket set is $850 alone . We will see about that.... If anything, I guess I can say the rest of the machine is fairly clean, and does not appear to have been wrapped around a tree at any point. So if it truly turns out this engine is scrap, I will have to weigh my options on a re-power, part it out, or pull a Dr Frankenstein....

Wonder how well the rear axle would hold up being powered by a Yamaha 750 3 cylinder from a motorcycle...

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

So I figure I should update this thread with the good and the bad news....

When I dropped the frame off at my buddys house, I had the engine with me in the truck. I grabbed a set of pliers from my buddy, and put them on the shift shaft to give it a twist for my self figuring it would be all bound up, or would make some interesting noises. Well click click click click click, Park, neutral, reverse, and high/low gears were all present and accounted for with no extra effort, no unusual sounds, and the output shafts spinning by hand (or locked) in each respective gear, WTH??? I called my GF's brother and asked the question, what was the original complaint when you brought the ATV to the dealership? The complaint was that the shift indicator lights on the speedometer were not working. Uhh... OK so the dealership jumped from what sounds like an electrical complaint to ripping the engine out of the frame and condemning it... :facepalm:

So I take the engine to work with me where I have my own tools, and time to take it apart in a heated garage. I figure if anything I can see if I can visualize a problem, and at least clean the RTV off the sections of engine cases that the jamook from the JD dealership lathered on. Well... took it apart, and saw a whole lotta nothing. Everything looked clean with no metal shavings or pieces anywhere. Couldn't really visualize the gear set by the naked eye. Would have had to pull the jug off, and split the main engine case. What I did see was a nice big hole machined in the crank side of the case that would be perfect to slip a small mirror or bore scope into. Well made the executive decision to purchase the nice bore scope from HF, the one that will take pictures, and record video. Something I always wanted. So I bought that, and did another exploration, what I saw inside... not one problem. Everything looks in order, clean, no chipped teeth on any of the gears. Shift forks look like they are in perfect shape too, WTH!!??

I then remember back to what the dope at the JD dealership said to me when I picked it up, something along the lines of "Well on this model of X brand machine, there is plastic spacers on the syncro mesh gears that melt, and bla bla bla, that could be whats wrong" Well on this model of this brand machine, this transmission uses DOG CLUTCHES, and isn't going to shift like a syncro mesh transmission . In other words, when they were looking at the machine, they assumed that the thing would shift like butter, which anybody who owns motorcycle or Alpha outdrive knows ain't going to happen with-out some kind of power interruption for the dog clutches to release :facepalm:...

My current working theory is that with the CVT clutch is packed full of mouse $**+, it was probably bound up and not fully releasing the CV belt to allow the transmission to be easily shifted between gears. Dismantling the clutch, cleaning and lubing it up should should have probably had it in perfect working order with no parts required.

I told all this to my GF, who got on my phone, and asked her brother how much the machine in total cost. With the cost of the machine, plus the 3 bills he paid to the JD dealership for their "services" he was in it for $2300... She insisted he take the machine back, and he accepted... We didn't have a conversation about this at first, so I was kinda P.O.ed but in the end it was the right decision, he would have really gotten hosed if he had just left it at the dealer. He's a nice guy that would give you the shirt off his back, and obviously this is something he had clearly wanted. I will re-assemble the engine for him THE RIGHT WAY (no gobs of RTV), and put the bike back together for him. He told her he would pay a grand for my services, but I'm not looking for that. Just as long as the price of gaskets, etc is covered, that's all I care about...

 

[rbh]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Good for you Roger, thats the holiday/family spirit (mindya kinda sucks not getting the machine for yourself).
Remember with the clutch not to use grease on the portion that slides on the shaft as it will get sticky after awhile and hang up.
And check the arms that have the weights on to see if they are wearing out (side to side play) as well as they move freely (not gummed up)

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

Good for you Roger, thats the holiday/family spirit (mindya kinda sucks not getting the machine for yourself).
Remember with the clutch not to use grease on the portion that slides on the shaft as it will get sticky after awhile and hang up.
And check the arms that have the weights on to see if they are wearing out (side to side play) as well as they move freely (not gummed up)

Thanks for the kudos Rob.

Looking at the clutch, it seems like the weights on it are a little buggered. Some move smoothly by hand, others have a fair amount of resistance. That was going to be my main focus of the clean up. Take apart the pivots for the weights, clean them up, and lube them up. Thanks for the tip on the shaft too. I probably would have put very light skim coat of grease on it. Do you think a little graphite lube would be OK, or is it ultimately better to just leave it completely dry?

 

[rbh]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

I have always used never seize, but call around to the local sled shops and see what they are using these days.
OH, another big one, remember what holes the spring is set in (most clutches have multiple holes for diffrent springs, mark with a felt pen)
this is the top and bottom pieces (sheaves?), if you get them in the wrong hole the engagement will be to fast or to slow.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

I have always used never seize, but call around to the local sled shops and see what they are using these days.OH, another big one, remember what holes the spring is set in (most clutches have multiple holes for diffrent springs, mark with a felt pen)this is the top and bottom pieces (sheaves?), if you get them in the wrong hole the engagement will be to fast or to slow.

Ehh...Not seeing any springs other than the big ones on the shafts... Take a look for your self; View attachment 126400

Edit:
I know it's hard to see anything in the pic, but if you look at the full sized version from BRP shes got no springs other than the big ones.

 

[rbh]

Re: Anybody have any experiance with a John Deere Trail Buck/ BRP Traxter?

No, thats right the big one on the crank shaft, "I THINK" that both the primary and secondary clutches have holes/settings for different springs and or different engagement points (higher or lower RPM's) bottom end VS top end.