Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

[1973Chieftain]

I had a Diablo Predator on my Chevy diesel which woke that engine up amazingly. Now, I have a Chevy 5.3L gas powered truck.... anyone programs or tune their gas engines with much effect?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

99% of the tuners for non turbocharged/diesel vehicles are worthless. They are nothing but resistors that screw with the air/fuel ratio, nothing more, nothing less. At best, you MIGHT be able to get a 10% increase in power if you want to run on the ragged edge. Worst case, they cost you an engine. The truth in the matter is that a gas NA engine is already well tuned, and without actual power adders, there simply isn't much left on the table by the manufacturer.

(I do high performance engine tuning for track cars as a hobby... I have tuned LOTS of vehicles using my own custom tunes. NA's are rarely worth connecting a laptop to, unless there have been other aftermarket supporting mods. In that case, it isn't the tune that is the cause of the increase, the new tune is just allowing the engine to use the new mods correctly.)

 

[1973Chieftain]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Thanks smokingcrater! My truck has a 6 speed auto with a manual shifting option, and either its over riding my shifting or in some other manor jumping 600 rpms frequently for no reason while towing... trying to see if a programmers might fix that problem.... VERY annoying while towing down the highway!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

are you towing in overdrive?

 

[1973Chieftain]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

I've tried both in and out of overdrive... when I hit that button it revs up and stays high... I can't get it down. Then my mileage is under 10 mpg pulling a total weight of 900 lbs! Im seriously thinking of selling the truck since this is annoying me so much! My old 4.3L s10 pulled many times better!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Waste of time! When I worked for Delco and worked with the engine management team at the GM proving grounds, they said there was no way an aftermarket group could know all that went into the programming of the engine management. If you want your O2 sensors to fail from running too rich when its not supposed to or conversely to have your engine to go lean on you, go ahead.

 

[Pontuned]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

I can't speak to what a programmer can do for a gasser but for my Cummins it made a tremendous difference (with supporting mods).

 

[90stingray]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Before my truck had a supercharger, i had used a hypertech handheld. You could tell the difference but i don't think you can have your cake and eat it too... ie... can't have the power AND the better mileage. There are probably a few better ways to spend your cash. Like beer... or save up for a supercharger

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

I can't speak to what a programmer can do for a gasser but for my Cummins it made a tremendous difference (with supporting mods).

Yep... You are playing with variables that don't exist in a non-forced induction vehicle. Having a turbo gives you a HUGE range of tuning options.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Waste of time! When I worked for Delco and worked with the engine management team at the GM proving grounds, they said there was no way an aftermarket group could know all that went into the programming of the engine management.

There are many ECU's that have been fully opened up and re-written by aftermarket hackers. (myself being one of them...) To sum it up in a nutshell, the modern ECU has two halves. One half contains the actual code that runs. This is what manages the engine and handles the day to day stuff. The other half is best thought of as a big spreadsheet or database. That is what you target for tuning, nobody cares about how the ecu does things, what is important is the data it uses to do those things. All the information has been reverse engineered from circuit diagrams, patent applications, loose lips, and brute force (computer brute force against an ECU, not the mafia variety!)

So in essence, we aren't reprogramming the ecu. We are changing everything it knows about the world though, and then just letting it do what it does best, using the factory programming. There is a certain amount of dabbling in the factory programming of course, but its only minor things.

(the obvious disclaimer, you can blow up an engine in about 3 mouse clicks... The screen shot below is just an example of a boost table. Accidentally add a couple digits in the wrong spot, and KABOOM!

Check out http://www.romraider.com/ This is a subaru specific program that i'm just listing as an example, but there are other communities out for other mfg's that are doing similar things.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Thanks smokingcrater! My truck has a 6 speed auto with a manual shifting option, and either its over riding my shifting or in some other manor jumping 600 rpms frequently for no reason while towing... trying to see if a programmers might fix that problem.... VERY annoying while towing down the highway!

what kind of truck? That doesn't sound like normal, and there might be something wrong... Under warranty yet?

Anyway, I had thought your original response was more about engines... Transmissions also run their own ECU, and there ARE programmers that will target transmissions. Generally they let you set torque lockup values, shift points, shift speed, etc... They won't fix an underlying problem though, which I suspect you might have.

 

[1973Chieftain]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

what kind of truck? That doesn't sound like normal, and there might be something wrong... Under warranty yet?

Anyway, I had thought your original response was more about engines... Transmissions also run their own ECU, and there ARE programmers that will target transmissions. Generally they let you set torque lockup values, shift points, shift speed, etc... They won't fix an underlying problem though, which I suspect you might have.

No idea about the warranty, I was guessing it was normal for the 6 speed. The truck is a 09 Chevy 1500 with the 5.3L. I know next to nothing about cars, but my driver seat observations with my 6.6 turbo diesel was that the programmer tweaked where the shifting points were which I was thinking might modify the truck enough to fix my issue. My truck does not have any noticeable issue at 55 mph but at 70-75 a windy day or a couple foot rise in the road (basically a bump) will make the engine rev up 600 rpms avenged towing anytging- even under 1000 lbs. Whenever I tow a bigger boat (2000 lbs or so) if I look at the road funny it seems to rev! This is in both manual and automatic. Perhaps I should just take it into the shop then....

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

There are many ECU's that have been fully opened up and re-written by aftermarket hackers. (myself being one of them...) To sum it up in a nutshell, the modern ECU has two halves. One half contains the actual code that runs. This is what manages the engine and handles the day to day stuff. The other half is best thought of as a big spreadsheet or database. That is what you target for tuning, nobody cares about how the ecu does things, what is important is the data it uses to do those things. All the information has been reverse engineered from circuit diagrams, patent applications, loose lips, and brute force (computer brute force against an ECU, not the mafia variety!)

So in essence, we aren't reprogramming the ecu. We are changing everything it knows about the world though, and then just letting it do what it does best, using the factory programming. There is a certain amount of dabbling in the factory programming of course, but its only minor things.

(the obvious disclaimer, you can blow up an engine in about 3 mouse clicks... The screen shot below is just an example of a boost table. Accidentally add a couple digits in the wrong spot, and KABOOM!

Check out http://www.romraider.com/ This is a subaru specific program that i'm just listing as an example, but there are other communities out for other mfg's that are doing similar things.

Rom Raider! Smoke you are really confusing me here, I would not have figured you for a Subaru Guy.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Then my mileage is under 10 mpg pulling a total weight of 900 lbs!

900# and a full sized truck, I wouldn't tow with OD off for that weight either. With the engine jumping 600RPM intermittently, it sounds like the converter is unlocking, then locking back up again. Tranny right on the edge of unlocking the converter. How many miles on the truck and when was the last time the tranny was serviced? Does the truck have the factory tow package, or an add-on tranny cooler.

I wouldn't use a programmer, again. I had one on a Dodge 4.7 V8 and couldn't use the performance tune, immediate ping with street driving even with a tank full of premium fuel. With tow mode tune installed it ran fine on premium fuel and I could fell the difference in power and better fuel economy, but I had to run premium fuel all the time. The last straw, I blew a head gasket, popped a minute hole in the firing ring of the head gasket and erosion of the aluminum head at that spot. I'm not sure if the increased timing caused the bad head gasket, but I'm not taking any chances. (I should say that 6 months before the head gasket went the radiator popped a hole and the temp gauge was pegged, let it cool 6 hours, refilled the coolant and limped home.) It could have been the programmer or the overheat, or a combination of both...

The programmer I had targeted a problem with the tranny shifting softly, it firmed up the shifts by limiting torque management. I installed a TransGo shift kit in the tranny, which worked better than the programmer. Overall transmission operation was better after installing the shift kit. This might be something to look into for the 600RPM fluctuation, it might be addressed in the shift kit, it might not also...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

The other half is best thought of as a big spreadsheet or database.

And this is what I am talking about. The manufacturer spends hundreds of thousands of man hours setting this database up and you think you actually know more than they do? Really?

If the engineers that create this database for a living tell me not to touch it, I take their advice.

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

I would have the tranny looked at. The 600 rpm slipping should not be happening and that defiantly sounds like a problem. I have never used a programmer on a gas engine but I know they do make them. Diesels are much more suited to them though. I got over 150 hp on my power stroke with just intake programmer and exhaust. I know bully dog makes a gas tuner and they certainly are a good company but I wouldn't expect a whole lot of gain on a gasser. I also wouldn't hook any programmer up until you have your tranny looked at and make sure you don't have some kind of failure in there since adding power will probably just push it over the edge and leave you on the side of the road if you do.

 

[bbstacker1]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

If you are still under warranty I would not do a programmer. Had a Chevy dealer tell me that GM directed them that if a vehicle came in and it had been reprogrammed to void the warranty!

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

That is true they will void your warranty for that. A lot of diesel guys use plug in modules while under warranty so if they have to go to the dealer they can just unplug it before going in.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

And this is what I am talking about. The manufacturer spends hundreds of thousands of man hours setting this database up and you think you actually know more than they do? Really?

If the engineers that create this database for a living tell me not to touch it, I take their advice.

There is a LARGE community of people doing this... For my subaru example above, for a couple model years subaru released a REALLY bad factory tune. Bad enough it was destroying engines (breaking ringlands). There were two solutions to the problem. Wait until the engine blows up, and then get subaru to put in a new one, and update the factory programming, OR... The aftermarket community had a better tune about 3 minutes after the first model rolled off the truck.

In my car, an aftermarket tune increases power about 25-30% and smooths out the torque curve dramatically. The oem engineers do know best, but they also had to deal with bean counters and the EPA. The factory programming is a compromise between all of those forces, and what the engineers think is best is secondary to the other two.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Anyone use programers/ tuners on their trucks?

Rom Raider! Smoke you are really confusing me here, I would not have figured you for a Subaru Guy.

I put on a ALOT of towing miles with my subaru. I've got somewhere north of 150 flashes to my ecu, I do a lot of tinkering!