AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

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stvwz

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Thought I would pass along this tidbit to maybe help others avoid what I have been through over the past year with a backfire problem in my 1988 Sunrunner 302Ultra with twin Volvo-Penta AQ271C dualprop motors (Chevy 350)

A year ago while cruising, one of the motors started a backfiring noise through the carburetor anytime the throttle was cracked or over 1700 RPM. Sounded like a timing/spark issue, so started with replacing the plugs/wires, then proceeded through swapping the coil and distributor with the other motor without success.

Rebuilt the carb next, thinking that perhaps since I had just topped off the tanks, something got plugged up in the carb (the other engine still ran fine). Also the fuel filter.

Still unchanged, I pulled the heads and had them fluxed for cracks and stuck valves. Also checked cam and lifters - All OK. New gaskets and seals - still no change.

Busy summer, so just recently picked up on this again. Next in line was a new timing chain and sprocket set. The old chain was stretched quite a bit, but certainly still within range.

Replaced Exhaust manifolds and risers since #1 cylinder appeared to have some water intrusion based on the clean piston top relative to others. Still no resolution of backfiring.

At this point I was convinced that I had overlooked something stupid, so basic. So I reread my manuals, and found a passage that held some hope regarding checking for voltage drop to the coil.

Armed with this, I went through the electrical diagnosis chart and found I had indeed a 3.8V drop in voltage between the battery and the coil terminal. I went through every electrical connection between the battery, alternator, starter, relay, ignition switch and grounds, cleaning and tightening each connection. I was able to recover about 1.5 to 2 V of the drop.

Started the engine, and after revving it up a couple of times, the residual carbon from the misfiring was blown out, and then she purred like a tiger once more. Could have saved a grand if I had started from the basic electrical diagnosis instead of jumping in at changing parts...lesson learned.

Whats frustrating is that I had searched high and low on this and other forums and google and talked to service experts, and not one reference was found to highlight the voltage drop possibility. A potential clue that I overlooked was the timing instability. Due to the weak voltage, the spark was inconsistent, causing incomplete combustion to be blown back up the carb when the intake opened up as well as the timing mark to fluctuate. Now, it is as steady as a rock.

So now I am completely humbled, but wiser when it comes to engine diagnosis...thought I would share my pain to help others avoid this potentially overlooked problem/symptom.

steve
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

OK - A little egg on the face here. Just when I thought I was home free, after getting the engine to run right again, I decided to check the oil and found that I had gotten water in the oil. While draining the milky oil out, I pulled the rocker covers and discovered a bent intake pushrod on #5 cylinder. Using a borescope camera, I also discovered now that the lifters for BOTH exhaust and intake on #5 cylinder are not even moving up and down with the cam. At this point I am not sure if the lobes are both gone or they are somehow stuck solid in the lifter bore.

Couple of questions that bother me is:

1) Why did the pushrod bend
2) Why aren't the lifters moving anymore
3) How did water get into the oil - I just had the heads checked, rebuilt with new gaskets, etc recently.

Can flat cam lobes pull cooling water in?
 

Maclin

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Pushrods bend when the valve can't move, like hits the piston or hits a "wall" of compression, or the valve gets hot and siezes in the guide. For an example, an exhaust valve can stop if the cylinder pressure is super high when it is trying to open, like if enough water got into the cylinder and got compressed without actually hydrolocking the engine.

Once a pushrod is bent or otherwise not in place the cam can knock the lifters up to the top of their bore high enough that the cam would not be able to touch them.

Water in the oil is from a coolant system breakdown, like cracked passages inside the block. Water has a tough time getting past piston rings, so any that gets into the cylinders would not get into the crankcase except by leaking past the rings and that takes a long time.

.
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Pushrods bend when the valve can't move, like hits the piston or hits a "wall" of compression, or the valve gets hot and siezes in the guide. For an example, an exhaust valve can stop if the cylinder pressure is super high when it is trying to open, like if enough water got into the cylinder and got compressed without actually hydrolocking the engine.

Once a pushrod is bent or otherwise not in place the cam can knock the lifters up to the top of their bore high enough that the cam would not be able to touch them.

Water in the oil is from a coolant system breakdown, like cracked passages inside the block. Water has a tough time getting past piston rings, so any that gets into the cylinders would not get into the crankcase except by leaking past the rings and that takes a long time.

.

Thanks for the reply. It is possible that some water got in while I had the front cover off overnight when I was changing the timing chain, even though I had a tarp over it. Hopefully this weekend I can spend some time and take the manifold and heads off to check for other damage.
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Today I pulled off the intake manifold and a cylinder head. #5 Exhaust lifter is cupped badly, so I am pretty confident that tomorrow when I pull out the cam, it will be flat! This is probably the REAL cause of my backfiring throught he carb problem, even though the voltage drop was an issue causing weak spark. Good news is that the valves seem ok (will replace both anyway on #5 to be sure, and no crack in the cylinder bore. Still want to put a borescope in the cooling passages to check for any cracks, but I think the water was being pulled into the cylinder by the flat cam.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

now is a good time to put in a new set of comp cams :)
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Definitely flat cam on exhaust lobe - #5 cylinder. Problem now is that I tried to pull cam out and ran into the fuel tank with 2" still in the block. Now have to figure out a way to disconnect engine block from bell housing and pivot while still in the water.

Any words of wisdom or previous experience with this?
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

your going to have to pull the boat. disturbing the engine mounting requires re-alignment
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

your going to have to pull the boat. disturbing the engine mounting requires re-alignment

Actually, this was not so bad - and no realignment will be necessary.

Laid 10' 4x4s across back of boat, bolted large S hooks to block in 4 places. Used ratchet straps over 4x4's to hooks. Disconnected engine to bell housing bolts, inspection cover plate screws and engine to engine mount bolts.

I was then able to lift the engine off of the mounts and away from the drive, allowing me to pivot the block up to remove the camshaft. By removing the block to mount bolts and not the mount to frame bolt, realignment is assured.

Engine1.jpg
 

Maclin

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Looks like fun so far, keep on posting my friend!
 

stvwz

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Re: AQ271C Engine Backfiring through Carb above idle speed fix

Latest update. Good news......very bad news....

Replaced the camshaft last week while in the boat, was able to pull the engine off the drive and turn it to get clearance for the cam. Put everything back together and everything ran great. Until I took it our for a test run. Engine ran beautifully, however, getting back to the dock, I noticed an oil film coming off the drive. Checked the oil in the engine and it was all milky again.

So the bottom line is that I seem to have water in the oil and oil in the water... I am afraid that I must have a cracked block. I looked when the manifold and heads were off, but I did not see any cracks, but given the fact that oil and water are mixing it up, the crack must be low, otherwise i dont think the oil would be getting into the cooling raw water.

Any other ideas on this? I might try to pressurie the block to make sure, but I will probably start to look around for a replacement engine.
 
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