Are you fed up with Government Waste?

[lakeman1999]

Trditionally the responsibility of US citezens to pay federal taxes has not been met with an equal responsibility by the government to reduce wastfull spending. Requiring all federal contracts to be posted on the internet will do more to reduce government spending than any other reform. Citezens Against Government Waste estimates that waste in federal spending is close to $200 billion per year. "ON AUG. 5th" federal officials will begin reviewing comments in the Federal Register from citezens who support this measure."IF THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA TO YOU" send your letter of support to the "GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION'S REGULATORY SECRETARIAT, at 1800 F. Street NW, Room 4035, Attn.: Laurie Duarte, Washington, DC 20405 or send an e-mail to: Notice.2003-N01@gsa.gov. Be sure to cite notice 2003-N01, the Internet contract posting project. All comments recieved by "AUGAUST 5" will appear in the Federal Register. You can also let your U.S. representatives know your position on this issue via the e-mail link on their web sites. Fairness and justice requires that those who financially support the government (i.e. the taxpayers) have full access to the contracts through which those funds are spent. With a government of the people, by the people, and for the people anything less than the complete posting of all federal expenditures on the internet is an insupportable violation of our democratic and individual rights.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

I'm with ya lakeman.<br /><br />Kenny

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

nice idea, but do we want to slow the process even more? i am an engineer/project manager for the navy, and my community handles construction/repair/maintenance contracts for all navy and marine corps installations. do you know how many contracts that is? and we should place them where for all to view? do we provide a bottom line cost or detailed breakdown? how much detail about the actual contract? full specs and drawings? won't the contractors and govt have a problem with that? what happens with design/build contracts, where the price is negotiated before the design is in hand?<br /><br />i'm not trying to be rude, but there is so much more that goes into govt contracting. the levels of supervision and oversight are vast. congress gets heavily involved. we need to follow countless regulations and laws imposed by all levels.<br /><br />waste is there, i know. but waste is found in all forms of business, and that's exactly what we are. sometimes you need to accept the fat to keep the machine in motion. we do our best, trust me.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

Ah, Mattt, you answer yet another right wing emotional appeal with a reasonable and practical response. That will get you no where here, I am afraid.<br /><br />While you are indeed correct, and that there is waste in all business, there is so much more involved in so many contracts than mere price, how anyone could affix a specific amount to that waste is simply silly. They would have to analyze every contract let, what all the criteria are that are involved, analyze all the competitors and what they offer, which factors are most important, and their relative value. <br /><br />Hire good people, let them do their job, do occasional independent audit reviews, and call it good. That is how business does it, and should be how government does it.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

plywoody- i think we agree here. and we do this in the govt. we allow the people to elect our governing officials. those officials do the best they can to hire competent people (me). they go one step further by implementing and enforcing countless rules, regulations, and laws. they force me to educate and know the rules. and i do my best to follow every one of them, while carrying out my appointed task- spending the people's money wisely and providing a quality product.<br /><br />allow john doe to review every federal contract does nothing but show distrust for the system. it does not make it better. the system works, and that is why we are such a great nation. with all that said, the govt does recognize our problems and limitations. we are always striving to do better. in my community, design/build and best-value contracting are just some of the tools we have recently adopted to try and better the system.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

I'm having a hard time accepting this but I AGREE WITH PLYWOODY.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

Large bureauacracies tend to have inefficiencies, and idiosyncracies, simply because they are large.<br /><br />At one point, I owned a printing business just north of Seattle near a large Boeing aircraft plant. Boeing had inhouse printing, but if someone newly promoted needed business cards, and did not want to wait the three to four weeks for their inhouse printing, they came to me. I would print up 10k blanks at a time with the Boeing logo on them, and all I had to do was to add their name to them and print them, and I could have them for them the next day.<br /><br />And I would charge Boeing roughly double the going competitive price. No one ever complained. And I was the preferred vendor, or so they told me.<br /><br />And then I would wait 60 to 90 days for my check. As they explained to me, if I want to do business with Boeing, I have to accept their terms.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

yes, plywoody, and it makes sense. it's called simplified aquisition procedures, or sap. rules have changed greatly over the last several years, but basically it allows us to sole source for purchases under a certain threshold. based on what level the purchase is being made from, that threshold can be $2500 or up to $100K. it saves time and keeps the system moving. but there is still oversight when sap is used. still rules to follow. and once that threshold is surpassed, the heavy regs kick in and other procedures are followed. again, it's a system that works.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

I've done plenty of biz with the GSA, DOD etc.<br />they are more careful then most in my experience.<br />there are websites where RFQ's are posted and anyone<br />registered can bid, lowest bid wins period.<br /><br />the only real waste is the tax dollars that we<br />send to washington just so they can send it back<br />to the state then the state to local gov't.<br />seems like it would save a lot if the $ just<br />stayed here all along.....

 

[lakeman1999]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

Fellows, appears to me its the proverbial case of the fox guarding the hen house, ya'll trying too straighten us out on the government waste bit. As plywoodie stated;<br />

Boeing had inhouse printing, but if someone newly promoted needed business cards, and did not want to wait the three to four weeks for their inhouse printing, they came to me. I would print up 10k blanks at a time with the Boeing logo on them, and all I had to do was to add their name to them and print them, and I could have them for them the next day.And I would charge Boeing roughly double the going competitive price.

plywoodie admits ripping off the government, charging double rates, when you could walk up the street to any one of his competitors, and get the going rate (50% less) in a couple of days. Then he prevaricates the issue by stating

No one ever complained.

HEY!!!! plywoodie, I and millions of others have been complaining for probably more years than you have existed.<br /><br />As mattttt25 stated; <br />

yes, plywoody, and it makes sense. it's called sap. it's a system that works.

Well, you are trying to make us the saps, and it wont work, I have been around long enough, to know when I am being taken by a prevaricating double talker.<br />mellowyellow says <br />

I've done plenty of biz with the GSA, DOD etc.<br />they are more careful then most in my experience.

Yes, that is why we have $700 toilet seats, $400 hammers, and on and on and on. Naturally the persons that profit from these rip offs are going to say it is A-OK, sounds like the proverbial case of the fox guarding the hen house.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

And it gets passed right on down the line to me, the consumer, who has to pay higher airline tickets because someone charged the manufacture double prices on stuff.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

no, u r wrong walt.... I sell stuff for higher<br />prices to the private sector usually. don't have<br />nearly as much competition!

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

If a business pays $2.00 for something last month, and today it raises to $3.00, he will raise his price also, or go out of business trying to sell it for $2.95.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

fellas, you're clearly making comments on things you know nothing about. if you just want to make a comment, go ahead. but don't argue unless you have ammo. instead of trying to turn things around, present some real facts. lakeman, if you truly know how the system works, lets hear it. tell me in detail where the process breaks down. i'll explain it to you. instead, you throw out the old "$700 toilet seat." trust me, doesn't happen and hasn't for quite awhile. if you haven't been involved in govt contracting, you really don't understand it. same reason you don't see me answering questions in the outboard section. for once i actually have something to offer!

 

[FLATHEAD]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

Matt let me ask you a question. When taxpayer money is involved in financing a project, once you hit a certain dollar amount doesn't it have to go to bid? Then they take the lowest so called responsible bidder. I know this is off subject a bit but I work for the taxpayer also on a local level a school district with a one hundred and fifty million budget this year.Let me tell you those low bidders cut every corner and use the most inferior products out there. I for one would like to see these contracts posted so it would come to light how the powers that be substitute quality building products and tactics for the cheapest you can get. Every district around has major problems because of this low bid crap. The jobs come in late and not a quality product. The American taxpayer is getting fleeced.JMHO

 

[lakeman1999]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

tell me in detail where the process breaks down. i'll explain it to you.

OK!! matttt25, I will make it sweet and simple, I would be willing to bet you that if we were to visit the warehouse where the products you sell the fed are delivered (or any other fed warehouse), the shelves would be stacked with items with next day air lables on them, and have been in the warehouse long enough to be gathering dust. Is there "ANYONE" on this board that would not consider that waste??

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

lakeman- first, i don't sell the fed anything. i buy those items for the govt. second, you post a theoretical situation that you can't prove in any way. very poor argument, even your supporters would agree.<br /><br />flathead- you are correct. there are several contracting "vehicles" and there are several "types" of contracts. one of the vehicles is simplified aquisition procedures. this allows me to save time by sole sourcing for a product/service as long as the price does not exceed a set threshold. depending on the level at which the purchase is made and authorized, that threshold could be $2,500 or $100,000. we even sole source for millions of dollars, but only when another factor occurs, such as reserving for minority owned companies (which we have to do sometimes). i point out that even when s.a.p. is used, i still need to conduct research and determine i am getting a good price.<br /><br />when the purchase price exceeds the s.a.p. threshold, the contract must be competitive. this can be negotiated or sealed-bid. sealed-bid among many contractors is good for the govt- it gets a good price and saves money. but negotiated contracts allow us to use best-value contracting. in this case, we use various factors- price, technical experience, past performance- to choose the best contractor for the job. they may not be the lowest price, but we hope to get a quality product at a fair price on time. i already mentioned our move to design/build in construction contracts, which is saving the taxpayer time and money.<br /><br />what vehicle and type of contract we choose is based on the type of contract and the specifics of the job. this is heavy stuff, trust me. there are thousands of people in the govt that have spent their whole lives in this field. they are extremely intelligent, well educated, forced into continuous learning programs, etc.<br /><br />hope that answers your questions. as for the original post, there is no reason or any possible way to post all federal contracts on the web before award. there is too much involved, and the average person would need to know more than he wants to concerning the contract to make a intelligent decision.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

It was not ripping off Boeing in the least, BTW. What kind of capitalists are you folks anyway?<br /><br />I performed a valuable service for them. I charged what I charged. None of my competitors wished to wait sixty to ninety days for their money. Niether did I, but if I had to, I wanted to make it worth my wait. I charged what the market would bear. I took the chance and printed up 10k or so blanks at a time with the Boeing logo on it in Boeing's special blue ink. There was no guarantee that I would sell all those. I took a chance, but then paper is cheap, and mixing special ink and setting up for it is not cheap. Then I could add the name and title and phone or whatever in black ink anytime later.<br /><br />It was in no way a rip off of Boeing. There was no way any of my competitors could get those cards out in less than 3 days unless they did it like I did, and I guarantee none of them would have done that for free. The only reason they didn't offer what I did is they probably didn't think of it.<br /><br />But if you put another layer of bureacracy on top of the purchasing process in the government, I guarantee you will only increase the waste, and probably by lots and lots. <br /><br />And airplanes, and airline ticket prices, are priced at what the market will bear.

 

[lakeman1999]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

Well, I am glad we settled this question, fellow americans, I am happy to announce that we have come to the conclusion that there is no waste in government. We are very fortunate, that these two fellows have everything under control, they are very much more intelligent than the rest of us, and they will take care of us. we are free to live the american life, and leave everything in their hands.<br />

None of my competitors wished to wait sixty to ninety days for their money.

By the way, great wise one (plywoodie) I am retired, and sold my business, and I like most all business owners, had to wait many times longer than 90 days for some of my/our/their money (I had to deliver the product, submit bill which went before the auditor, who approved the purchase, sent it on to the main office, who sent it to disbursing, where it went on the pile, and eventually a check would be issued), and I never, one time ever charged a double price for my services, as I was doing business as busines is done fairly. "YOU" on the other hand, were ripping them off. this is why you need someone looking over what is being done in the name of us/we/you/they.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Are you fed up with Government Waste?

So you would price a product solely based on what it cost you, regardless of what it was worth in the marketplace? What in the world is conservatism coming to???<br /><br />You would not work for me long, I can tell you that! But then I am just a greedy liberal!<br /><br />But back to the subject, Mattt is absolutely correct. There are a ton of factors that go into getting proper value on anything, from design engineers and specifications to timing to price to a whole host of things. To have yet another bureacracy to oversee this operation, which you would need, would cost a ton of money, and slow projects down to a crawl.<br /><br />No thanks.<br /><br />Of course there is waste at times. No one is perfect. I'd venture a wild guess there is stuff in your food cupboard that are gathering dust as well. This cure you are suggesting would increase, and not decrease, the waste.