Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Kiwi Phil

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Jun 23, 2003
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I have never been able to get a formula inside my brain to work out the following.
I need to understand the "parts per million (ppm)" statement.
I need to use this when I am adding chlorine to treat my dam water.
I fill one tank with 28,000 litres of dam water, and if i was to add "1 part per million" chlorine, then how do calculate how much chlorine to add.

What i have been doing in the past is writting down 1,000,000 milli-litres (1 million milli-litres), and dividing it by 1,000, (being the number of milli-litres in a litre,) and the answer is 1,000litres.

So in that case, to get 1 part per million do i add 1milli- litre of chlorine per 1,000 litres of water.

It just never seems right to me, and i struggle with this every year.
I really need the formula and to write it in marker pen on the pump house wall, and accept it.Before i do that tho, I have to make sure I have the correct formula.

(I actually need more than 1 part per million (ppm) chlorine but if i know what 1ppm is, I can work out for example what 3.5ppm should be).

Thanks
cheers
Phillip
 

JB

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Hmmmmm. Your problem seems to be dealing with the different terms, liter and milliliter, and yes 1 ml = 1/1,000 liter.

Try writing it and thinking of it, not as 1milliliter but as .001liter.

Divide the total number of liters by 1,000,000 to get the number of liters to make 1ppm.

28,000 liters (or 28Kl) /1,000,000 =.028liters, (or 28ml) is 1 ppm.

Hope that helps. :)
 

Boomyal

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

One gallon of 5.25% sodium hypochlorite (common household bleach) dumped into 52,000 gallons of water will yield a chlorine concentration of 1 ppm.

This may not be so simple now because they changed our gallons of bleach to 3 quarts? and upped the concentration of S/HC to 6% by volume. It's possible that if you just added an additional quart of water, you would still have the original concentration in the 'bottle' bottle of bleach.

Now all you need to do is to convert one US gallon to ml's, convert 52k gal of water to ml's, divide the 52k gallon ml's into the 1 gal milliliters then multiply the results times your 3.5. That will give you your needed ml's per gallon.
Remember, 1 ppm = 1 ml.

Don't forget, the result will be in 'total' chlorine, not 'free' chlorine.

ps, oops, I just noticed that you will need to convert gallons to liters.
 

roscoe

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Kiwi, you will need to know the strength of the chlorine additive, as it is available in several levels of concentration. Even then, you can't produce the proper strength based on volume alone. Chemicals, especially chlorine, will vary in strength, so monitoring and "adjustments" must be made to the formulas.


Where I work, for sanitation in the food processing industry, we use a chart supplied to us by the chemical distributor. The chart is specific for each chemical we use, and shows what amount to add per specific volume, to achieve the desired level. We also use the test kits, and can then use the charts to determine how much more chemical needs to be added to bring the solution to the desired level.

So.... check with your chemical supplier and ask for a chart, its their job to help their customers use the chemicals safely.

Your question: So in that case, to get 1 part per million do i add 1milli- litre of chlorine per 1,000 litres of water. ? ?

No is the short answer.

Since you the chlorine is not 100% chlorine, and you want the end result to be ppm of the entire solution.

Don't hold me to this number as I rely on the charts, but I think you would need approximately 18ml of 6% chlorine PER 1,000 litres, to obtain a 1 ppm solution.

So you will need 500ml to bring the 28,000 litres up to 1 ppm.
1.750 litres to bring it up to the 3.5 ppm level.

If you are getting a higher level of chlorine solution from your supplier, you obviously will need to use less.
 

tommays

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Hi Phil

As the keeper of pure water i can tell you to stay away from the cheep bleach :)

I treat are system once a week and have found we get much better results with REAL Clorox Bleach which is really 6%

We measure the bleach/water with a meter in uS and mS at the discharge points of the system with a meter and have found that it takes as much as 3 gallons of brand X to get the same level of bleach as 1.44 gallon bottle of Clorox

Just like you bugs in the water would close are plant down and cost a lot of money

I would still advise you to use a final .2 micron filter as any bacteria is to big to pass through it and saves a lot of headaches and money


Tommays
 

levittownnick

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

1 part per million means that if you have 1 million things (liters, gallons, eggs, slices of bread etc.) 1 of those will be what you need. So if I divide whatever units I have by 1 million, I will know how many million we have and multiplying the number of million we have by the ppm will give us what we need for the ratio. If we want 3.62 ppm, just multiply the answer by the 3.62. Or if we want 0.26ppm, then multiplt the answer by 0.26. The resultant answer will be in the units we are dealing with (liters or slices of bread.
In your example: 28,000 liters divided by 1,000,000=0.028million parts X 1ppm=0.028liters. for convenience I would convert that to milliliters=28ml.=1ppm of 28,000liters.
 

tommays

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/concentration.html

Concentration Units
Definition

The concentration of a chemical substance expresses the amount of a substance present in a mixture. There are many different ways to express concentration.

Chemists use the term solute to describe the substance of interest and the term solvent to describe the material in which the solute is dissolved. For example, in a can of soda pop (a solution of sugar in carbonated water), there are approximately twelve tablespoons of sugar (the solute) dissolved in the carbonated water (the solvent). In general, the component that is present in the greatest amount is termed the solvent.

DuPont book

The DuPont™ Chemistry Emergency Response Guide available at Safety Emporium explains basic chemistry and more!

Additional Info

There are many ways to express concentrations. Some of the more common concentration units are:

1. Mass per unit volume. Some MSDS's use milligrams per milliliter (mg/mL) or milligrams per cubic centimeter (mg/cm3). Note that 1 mL = 1 cm3 and that cm3 is sometimes denoted as a "cc" (see volume units and mass units).

Mass per unit volume is handy when discussing how soluble a material is in water or a particular solvent. For example, "the solubility of substance X is 3 grams per liter".

2. Percent by Mass. Also called weight percent or percent by weight, this is simply the mass of the solute divided by the total mass of the solution and multiplied by 100%:

percent by mass

The mass of the solution is equal to the mass of the solute plus the mass of the solvent. For example, a solution consisting of 30 grams of sodium chloride and 70 grams of water would be 30% sodium chloride by mass: [(30 g NaCl)/(30 g NaCl + 70 g water)] * 100% = 30%.

To avoid confusion whether a solution is percent by weight or percent by volume, the symbol "w/w" (for weight to weight) is often used after the concentration such as "10% potassium iodide solution in water (w/w)".

3. Percent by Volume. Also called volume percent or percent by volume, this is typically only used for mixtures of liquids. Percent by volume is simply the volume of the solute divided by the sum of the volumes of the other components multiplied by 100%:

percent by volume

If we mix 30 mL of ethanol and 70 mL of water, the percent ethanol by volume will be 30% BUT the total volume of the solution will NOT be 100 mL (although it will be close). That's because ethanol and water molecules interact differently with each other than they do with themselves.

To avoid confusion whether we have a percent by weight or percent by volume solution, we could label this as "30% ethanol in water (v/v)" where v/v stands for "volume to volume".

4. Molarity. Molarity is the number of moles of solute dissolved in one liter of solution. For example, if we have 90 grams of glucose (molar mass = 180 grams per mole) this is (90 g)/(180 g/mol) = 0.50 moles of glucose. If we place this in a flask and add water until the total volume = 1 liter we would have a 0.5 molar solution. Molarity is usually denoted with an italicized capital M, i.e. a 0.50 M solution.

Recognize that molarity is moles of solute per liter of solution, not per liter of solvent!! Also recognize that molarity changes slightly with temperature because the volume of a solution changes with temperature.

5. Molality. Molality is the number of moles of solute dissolved in one kilogram of solvent. Notice the two key differences between molarity and molality. Molality uses mass rather than volume and uses solvent instead of solution.

Unlike molarity, molality is independent of temperature because mass does not change with temperature. If we were to place 90 grams of glucose (0.50 moles) in a flask and then add one kilogram of water we would have a 0.50 molal solution. Molality is usually denoted with a small italicized m, i.e. a 0.50 m solution. Note: m also has other possible meaninsg on MSDS's, so look at the context carefully.

6. Parts per million (PPM). Parts per million works like percent by mass, but is more convenient when there is only a small amount of solute present. PPM is defined as the mass of the component in solution divided by the total mass of the solution multiplied by 106 (one million):

ppm calculation

A solution with a concentration of 1 ppm has 1 gram of substance for every million grams of solution. Because the density of water is 1 g per mL and we are adding such a tiny amount of solute, the density of a solution at such a low concentration is approximately 1 g per mL. Therefore, in general, one ppm implies one milligram of solute per liter of solution.

Finally, recognize that one percent = 10,000 ppm. Therefore, something that has a concentration of 300 ppm could also be said to have a concentration of (300 ppm)/(10,000 ppm/percent) = 0.03% percent by mass.

7. Parts per billion (PPB). This works like above, but we multiply by one billion (109; caution: the word billion has different meanings in different countries). A solution with 1 ppb of solute has 1 microgram (10-6 g) of material per liter.

8. Parts per trillion (PPT). This works like parts per million and parts per billion except that we multiply by one trillion (1012). There are few, if any, solutes which are harmful at concentrations as low as 1 ppt. Note: "ppt" is sometimes used as laboratory shorthand for precipitate, which is entirely unrelated.

Here is a handy conversion calculator for several of these terms. Conversions between the other units require knowing additional information and are therefore more complex.

The number 1 chemist pointed me here :)

This is also why we use the microsiemens meter as it gets so complex when mixing large volumes :)

http://www.tps.com.au/hydroponics/meters.htm

Tommays
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Well I thought I knew the amswer but I'm well confused now.
 

BoatBuoy

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Boomyal said:
One gallon of 5.25% sodium hypochloride

Small detail, but that would be sodium hypochlorite.
 

rolmops

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

OK let's make this simple.
28000 is 28 cubic meters.1ppm is 1mililiter per cubic meter and 28 mililiters is 1ppm in 28 cubic meters.
Remember that chlorine evaporates fast so expect to have to add some chlorine regularly.
 

roscoe

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Several of you have forgotten that the chlorine is not pure. It is 83-96% water.
He needs 3.5 ppm of chlorine molecules.

I'm sorry, but 28 ml ( roughly one fluid ounce ) of 6% NaClO, will not give you 1 ppm in 7,396 gallons of water. And 98 ml will not give you 3.5 ppm in 7,396 gallons of water.


Get yourself both types of test kits, and have at it.
It shouldn't take to many trials to get you in the ball park.

But you will get nowhere unless you know the strength of the chlorine, and have a decent test kit.
 

rolmops

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

roscoe said:
Several of you have forgotten that the chlorine is not pure. It is 83-96% water.
He needs 3.5 ppm of chlorine molecules.

I'm sorry, but 28 ml ( roughly one fluid ounce ) of 6% NaClO, will not give you 1 ppm in 7,396 gallons of water. And 98 ml will not give you 3.5 ppm in 7,396 gallons of water.


Get yourself both types of test kits, and have at it.
It shouldn't take to many trials to get you in the ball park.

But you will get nowhere unless you know the strength of the chlorine, and have a decent test kit.

Roscoe you are utterly right in your argument.
The only thing is that usually when you buy these purifying liquids,they really do not expect you to do any advanced math.What they mean is :Make sure that you use an X amount of the liquid that you have purchased in whatever concentration you have purchased it in and that will give x ppm.Usually they concentrate it so that 1ccm or 10 ccm will actually translate into one part per million in a cubic meter of water.
 

Kiwi Phil

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Jun 23, 2003
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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Thanks everybody
Sorry for the delay....been busy
Your input is appreciated.
I now understand the ppm and will write that on the shed wall.....but I have to check the following with you:

My supplier tells me the chlorine is 10%, so I guess that is the ‘free chlorine”.

To get 1ppm “free chlorine in 1,000 litres”, am I correct in saying I need to add 10ppm (10milli-litres) of chlorine in the form he supplies it to me?

It is sodium hypochlorite.

Cheers
Phillip
 

rolmops

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Correct,well sort of.
10 milliliters,would give you 1ppm in one cubic meter.
You however,have 28 cubic meters.This means that you have to use 280 milliliters to get 1ppm overall in you reservoir.
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Yep, I understand that rolmops.
I have a real mental-block when it comes to this sort of thing: that's why I have to ask bumb questions, and write the answers on the shed wall, in big letters, above the dosing unit.
Thanks very much.
Cheers
Phillip
 

roscoe

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Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

rolmops said:
The only thing is that usually when you buy these purifying liquids,they really do not expect you to do any advanced math.What they mean is :Make sure that you use an X amount of the liquid that you have purchased in whatever concentration you have purchased it in and that will give x ppm.

I wish it was that easy where I worked.
We use quite a bit of chemicals, at very specific concentrations, for several purposes, regulated by the gov't, and they are expensive. Oh, and we pay the city extra $ for the amount of chemicals discharged into the sewer. So we need to get it right. We are also using chemicals in combination with other chemicals, so it has to be right.

And we try not to mix chlorine with acid based chemicals like my supervisor did last fall. :% Yikes !
 
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