Assistance sought with a small maths problem

[rolmops]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

The only thing is that usually when you buy these purifying liquids,they really do not expect you to do any advanced math.What they mean is :Make sure that you use an X amount of the liquid that you have purchased in whatever concentration you have purchased it in and that will give x ppm.

I wish it was that easy where I worked.
We use quite a bit of chemicals, at very specific concentrations, for several purposes, regulated by the gov't, and they are expensive. Oh, and we pay the city extra $ for the amount of chemicals discharged into the sewer. So we need to get it right. We are also using chemicals in combination with other chemicals, so it has to be right.

And we try not to mix chlorine with acid based chemicals like my supervisor did last fall. :% Yikes !

I sure hope you were at a safe distance when that happened.Inhaling that mix has proven to be deadly.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Having read this entire thread.What do you think is easier to calculate.The decimal system of liters and cubic meters or the good old American way of fluid ounces and quarts and gallons?,never mind cubic feet.
How do you calculate a cubic 12footer:%:^:}

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Phil,

Is this for the tanks I saw in the background of your new boat pictures? I am assuming that those are reservoirs for water, then run threw a pump or repressurization system for household use.

Take a look at UV systems or RO systems. Chlorine is a cancer agent. It is universally accepted for purifying water, but not always the best way to go IMHO. If it is a repressurization system, some of the materials used may swell if too much chlorine is used. Watch the Pressure tank bladders, and the seals and bearings in the pumps.

I am assuming you have a catchment system off of your roof for rainwater?

I would help you with the math, but others far smarter and more fluent might be better as indicated in the above posts. 8)

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

rolmops:
I'm from a vintage that had to change from imperial (your system) to metric.
The metric is about 1million times easier to use in every area.
I made an error one day when I was mannually dosing a tank.
I had a chlorine tablet floating in the tank, and poured in acid, which went over the tablet. Fortunately the pall of smoke that quickly arose missed my face by some half-metre. I was aware enough to duck down and backward as I ran. Never done that since.

pointer....
yes, these are the holding tanks.
I have them piped to take all the rain water from the roofs. Actually had all my roof gutters flow reversed for this purpose.
I pump from then with a pressure pump (that way the pump comes on when a solanoid opens, and the solanoids are controlled by an electronic panel). Can't get the volume from such a pump (as compared to a volume pump) but I can automate it easier.
I pump the water from these tanks, through 2 hydrolic proportional dosing pumps, that add fertilizer at the rate of EC 1.8, and deliver it to the Operating Tank.

these are the holding tanks you saw in the other photo. 1 is 23K litres, the other 28K litres

this is the Operating tank. It holds 10K litres.
It is fibreglass, and old, hence a lot of patches.
Has a sand filter and pump, which allows me to clean sediment off the bottom, which saves me dumping it ( about 4K litres per week) so big savings there. When I backwash the sand filter, I pump dirty water in to the blue 200Litre tank in photo, and then bucket that out over the week to my vegie garden.
The water in tis tank is fertilized, and at the moment it pumps water to the 60K plants for 15mins every hour. That water falls by pipes to another 3k litre tank which is auto pumped back to the holding tank for re-use. 10k Litres get used about 80 times before it is all used up by the plants.

The idea I have is to pump the grotty water from the dam, treat it in one of the holding tanks, then use it in my operating tank.
We are in the 7th yr of drought so I have to do something. Had rain 4 weeks back, but that will be the end of it now until (hopefully) October.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

tommays:
I have not forgotten you, recommending that .2 micron filter a yr back.
I went over and over that info site you sent me, and decided against it as:

1. my pumps and pipework from the dam did not match up well.

2. my water is very cloudy with red clay, and probably full of e-coli from duck pooop, and wondered if that wouldn't block the filter very quickly.

Now I can't find that site.
Do you still have it?
I think I am going to have to look at it again.

I am up for SQF 2000 (for Quality Assurance) this year, in fact I think the bloke is coming after easter to start. That is why I need to get whatever I implement 'right'.
I need to talk to you if you have experience in this area too.

I could go for an Ozone Plant, or 'blue' light, or Reverse Osmosis, but I am not. There has to be a simpler more economical way.

I also have in the back of my mind putting in a Slow Sand Filtration Unit. If it produced 200litres per hour I would just have enough water in the height of summer, and a surplus for the rest of the year.
I have read a lot about them.
Do you have any experience with them?
As i understand them, if i had a 1.5m high corrogated steel tank, about 2.8m wide, by the dam, I could use a very small low volume pump to keep water flowing in at say 200 litres per hour, and the clean water coming out the bottom, to a 1,ooo litre tank, with a small pump on a float switch to transfer it to the Holding tanks at the top of the hill.
Are these Slow Sand Filters as efficient as they say they are?
Occurs to me they are cheap, very reliable, and highly effective.
Whatever I do, it has to be non time consuming and highly effective.
I would be interested to hear the views and experience from anyone.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Phil

you can do most of the filtering with a DE pool filter like this

they are WAY better than sand i cound not keep my pool clean until i switched to a DE unit

It will filter massive amounts of dirt down to below 5 micron and the DE media is well dirt cheep


We do use a aquafine UV also (blue light)


I prefilter street water with 5 micron filters which is were 99% of the dirt stops we change these every 6 months about 250,000 gallons of water

i think people would get ill if they saw what we filter out of drinking water

i know i used 66,000 gallons in the last 22 days

The .2 micron is only for the final point of use a saftey measure and we change them once a year just because

I have never seen them get dirty and we have never had a bug get into are water

There are big companys like PALL that are all over the world we get are filters from US filter

i will take a look at the part number tomorrow

Tommays

 

[rolmops]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

You might wish to get in touch with a rep of the "netafim" company.They developed filtration and drip irrigation systems that use backflush systems while working with sand and gravel.They also use systems that soften water and remove calcium deposits. They do have reps in Australia
try:
www.netafim.com.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

tommays:
I have been hesitant using DE.
Are there health issues with DE?
.
From your experience, if my dam water is very cloudy with red clay, will the DE bring it to clear, in one pass?
I could pump it from the dam, thru the DE then in to the holding tank.

rolmops.
called netafin.
awaiting rep to call back.
I use their disc filters for the water leaving my Operating Tank.

Have had in the back of my mind, using a product called Zealite, in a standard Sand Filter.
this is a link http://www.zelbrite.com/#
and if you go to their 'slideshow' you get a bit more info.

also here is some data/info on the product
http://www.zelbrite.com/media.html

have you ever used this media or familiar with its performance?
Struck me it is as good as DE yet easier, and maybe safer, to use.

Something else I should mention:
after last yrs discussions, I bought an auto/electronic chlorine and acid probe and proportional dosing unit. Probes measure the water, and dose according to my settings.
It worked an absolute treat on my Operating Tank. Water fair sparkled, as did the white channels I grow the plants in.
Problem was, it killed 20% of my crop. Too much chlorine.
I worked out:
1. I could not stabilize my ph due to varying fertilizer levels and maybe a lot of other things, which gave fluctuations in chlorine dosed. The 2 seem related.
2. I could not equate mvolts to ppm, causing the chlorine dose to vary up and down. Could never make a clear list of what equaled what.

Solution: I very calmly took it all apart, and gently placed it in the pump house, resisting the temptation to biff it as far as I could out in the dam.

So if I filter to low microns, then turn the water over in the Holding tank, balancing the ph and adding chlorine.
All I have to work out then is: how long do I have to leave the water in the holding tank until the chlorine has all gone?

I have too balance this with the idea of using that other filter you mentioned.

I really appreciate these discussions. Working out in the paddock by myself all day….well, I tend to suffer tunnel vision and the opportunity to discuss matters with others just opens up wide horizons.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Hi Phil

The DE is a natural product and filters better buy a huge amount

I found this out when i could not get my pool water to clear up with the sand filter DE did it in hours It froms a super fine filter cake on the grids and stops everything

We filter in a continuous process with the water loop in continuous recirculation this stops any bugs that may grow in the pipes

I would make batches of clean water in a tank like a swiming pool a small DE filter with a 1.5 HP motor (they cost 400 dollars and will control a 27' round buy 4' deep pool )

When your happy with it i would use on the plants with a final micro filter with a 5 micron prefilter to protect the final .2 micron filter

We use a T910801-432 houseing with a FCWN020S2 .2 micron element all from US filter

With the HUGE e-coli letuce recalls in the US i would think other people would understand how easy it is to get a bug into plants

It is also very easy to test for e-coli within 24 hours

Tommays

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

I'm pretty sure I will go with a DE. Have things underway. Will keep you posted.

If it is easy to test for e-coli within 24hrs:

is it possible for me to do it here?......
is chlorine effective against it?.......

do you know if there is a scale to show how long it takes for chlorine to 'disappear" from water?

When you say you filter in a continious process does that mean mean I would have to pass the water thru the filter several times, or will I get away with pumping it from the dam, thru the filter, then in to the tank.....no more filtering?

e-coli is something my crop is tested for....aways been clear......just want t keep it that way.

Thanks
Cheers
Phillip

 

[tommays]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

I think if you tryed to get it clear in one shot the cost would be to high

I would pretend the tank was a swiming pool with the DE filter keeping it clean and allways moveing ,which will keep and even amount of chemicals and help control any Blooms of bugs

Buy keeping the water moveing it stops the problem of stagnant water giveing bugs a chance to grow

Up here you can keep a pool clean with 4 to 6 hours of filtering a day (plenty of bird poo going in


The next step is getting the water to your product

How big is the area ? We use a 350' LOOP or circle of pipe with a second pump that allways keeps the water moveing in the pipe and passing through the micro filter

We have valves in the loop to get water to the product were needed

It pretty much copys nature moveing water is usally safe to drink

the e-coli water test kits are a common i would try Google and see what comes up down under


Tommays

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Assistance sought with a small maths problem

Guess what I bought today.....a DE Filter !!!!!!

Not sure how I am going to hook it up to my existing pump and pipe work.....so will have to procrastinate on that a bit.

Thanks for all the advice and assistance.
Very much appreciated.
Cheers
Phillip