At A Loss

[dickenscpa]

I did a search and for the terms I put in there were some people with the same problem but no replies on those threads. May not have chosen the right search terms.

I have a new to me '91 Johnson 60HP VRO (disabled). Two Fridays ago I go fishing and bass are top feeding close to the dock. I never cranked the motor, just trolled for about 2 hours. Started the engine and idled thru no wake zone. Gave it some throttle and bogged down and quit. Ran the battery down restarting it. It kept starting right up but would die as soon as I engaged it in gear.

Next day it starts and runs fine, shut down and fish a bit and had to troll back into the dock. No start.

Take my Dad fishing Friday evening. It starts right up, idle thru no wake and give it throttle. We're moving along about half speed or a touch more and it just dies. Water over the back and we're soaked. We fish a bit and I start up and we get to the dock. I tie off and back the trailer down and it starts right back up. Put it in reverse to back away from dock and it kills the motor and won't restart.

I bought the service manual, but had a mech clean carbs before it came in. He said they were fine to begin with and didn't charge me labor just the new gaskets and such. Now I can't get the bulb hard before starting.

Have checked all lines for leaks or splits and they're new and fine looking. Pumping the bulb or choking it didn't help keep it from dieing. All three cylinders are within 2 PSI of 140, good spark on all three and Champion plugs gapped to .030.

One more DUMB question. My old '73 boat had a portable 6 gal tank with a vent in the cap to unscrew while running. This new boat doesn't appear to have a vented cap but a vent on the port side in the rear above the rub rail. Should this be open to get air while running the boat?

TIA
Brad

 

[JB]

Re: At A Loss

If you used "At a loss" as search term I am not surprised you drew a blank.

Helpers here look at about 200 posts a day this time of year. They look for problems they can help with. At a loss does not qualify for many.

Try a title that advertizes what sort of help you want.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=250874

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: At A Loss

you've got compression and spark. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=244013

 

[dickenscpa]

Re: At A Loss

you've got compression and spark. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=244013

The guy I bought it from stated that it had been tuned up and gone thru before he listed it for sale. Of course he was trying to sell me a boat. I took it to a very respectable mech here in the area that others online in other states spoke highly of too. He said the carbs were fine and he called me last night and said he suspects the power pack. My previous motor was on old Mercury ('73) and I don't think it had a power pack. I was a little unfamiliar with it and had to read in the manual a bit last night.

I have a Harley and have a lot of friends with bikes that can't work on them themselves and they take them to HD mechs. I hate the idea of just throwing parts at something hoping to get lucky. The service manual has the steps to test the power pack so I'm gonna run thru that test this evening.

Thanks for your help.
Brad

 

[dickenscpa]

Re: At A Loss

If you used "At a loss" as search term I am not surprised you drew a blank.

Helpers here look at about 200 posts a day this time of year. They look for problems they can help with. At a loss does not qualify for many.

Try a title that advertizes what sort of help you want.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=250874

Obviously those weren't the terms I typed in for my search. I don't think the search function will even let you use terms that are two letter words.

The terms I searched brought up a LOT of results. Choosing which words work is the tricky part. You'll get a lot of hits that have nothing to do with your problem and sometimes nothing to do with boats. The search function is a fickle beast. I used to have a Harley Sportster and picked up some awesome deals on ebay by knowing to include "Sporster" as a search. Others who didn't know to misspell it, never bid.

I wasn't complaining about helpers not helping. The posters here are invaluable. With a service manual and the search function here I completely rebuilt my old Merc. What I was alluding to was that my search brought up some threads that were right on with my problem and those particular ones might not have a response to them. Also, sometimes you find a thread that's right up your alley and people reply with a lot of very good responses and the original thread starter is never heard from again and you have no idea what worked and what didn't.

I don't have a ton of posts but I check in here almost every day. I may only have 20 or so posts but I have given help in a few situations myself IF I'm sure I know what I'm talking about. If I'm not sure, I would rather keep my mouth shut than cause someone additional grief.

My particular thread title may have strayed from the rules. I apologize for that. An unintentional oversight due to my frustration with my new to me boat. I wasn't frustrated or at a loss due to anything from this sight. I was frustrated at the circumstance that a reputable mech can't find anything wrong, it ran great the first two weeks and every culprit that my search unearthed and what would hit me first has been a dead end. For all intent and purposes it should run great. Compression, spark and fuel all seem to be fine. It's the technology of a new motor I have to get used to. My old boat didn't have VRO, power trim, built in gas tank, power pack, warning alarms or shiny paint.LOL!

I'm not upset and don't want to come off that way. I know where you're coming from. Just thought I'd explain better where I was coming from.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: At A Loss

Search this site to find Joe Reeve's directions to build a homemade spark gap tester.

Ensure your ignition is up to snuff and test before puchasing ANY electrical part.

Spark plugs can and do fuel foul, they can look good and idle, but fail when the intake vacuum drops under any real load. Marine/industrial engines require significant ignition voltages. Orange sparks just won't do it.

 

[dickenscpa]

Re: At A Loss

Search this site to find Joe Reeve's directions to build a homemade spark gap tester.

Ensure your ignition is up to snuff and test before puchasing ANY electrical part.

Spark plugs can and do fuel foul, they can look good and idle, but fail when the intake vacuum drops under any real load. Marine/industrial engines require significant ignition voltages. Orange sparks just won't do it.

I got a spark gap tester, but there were three brand new spark plugs in one of the storage compartments when I bought the boat. Might switch those out in case the new ones I installed had a bad one in the bunch.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: At A Loss

you have to have 3 things for it to run, proper compression, proper spark, proper fuel,oil, and air mixture. you have good compression, did you actually check spark on each plug, it should jump 1/2 inch and be blue spark. if you have these two, then you have a fuel air problem- carbs. carbs are one thing that can be fine, and it does not take much to clog them, or cause a float to stick.. if you get it running, and it cuts out again. immediately check spark.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: At A Loss

are you running Champion QL77JC4 plugs gapped at .030? if not get them, other brands are known to cause misfiring problems.

http://www.boatsetup.com/SparkPlugChart.pdf

 

[brandon.prewitt]

Re: At A Loss

FYI : My motor that definitely had a bad power pack had no spark at all on left two cylinders.

 

[clemsonfor]

Re: At A Loss

your problem sounds similar to mine and i replaced the power pack which helped with cold starts and the random cut of and no restart like yours. Mine to would just die and then not start back then when home or the next day or sometimes 10-20 min fire right off. I also had some card tweeaking that had to be done. Run good so far and since the pack for my 60hp was only 50-60$ i just said its an 81 not going to hurt to have a new one or a spare if it did not work, but i had tested and everthing else seemed to be fine, so i gambled!

-Nate

PS i got my stuff from ebasicpower . com

 

[dickenscpa]

Re: At A Loss

Weirdest thing. I know my compression and spark are good. I do get a good blue spark from all three cylinders. Other than some tests I followed from the service manual that came in the other day, I have not changed a single thing on that boat. All the tests I ran came out fine.

I stop by the boat shop where I took the boat originally. Good guys in there and they're willing to talk. If you sound like you can keep your finger out of your nose, they'll tell you how to do something without bringing it in. Even if another place is cheaper on little things I always buy from them.

We're talking and he says there's nothing in the world to keep that engine from running like a top. I take him fishing Saturday. I changed nothing in my routine. I couldn't make that boat run bad. It started, stopped, ran and did everything perfectly. Did everything but put fish in the boat. I take my Dad out fishing Sunday after Church. It's 98 deg out and it runs perfectly. I went by myself yesterday evening just to see if the demons would attack while by myself and dark. Nothing, ran perfect. I'm scared to go fast on water and I even opened it up a bit last night and she'll go.

Mech knew I was going last night and he called today and basically said something very similar to what Tashasdaddy said, "Carbs may be perfect and just had a bit of trash that worked itself out."

I'm just gonna fish and enjoy my Dad and son and not worry about it. Thanks for all of your help!

 

[Harker]

Re: At A Loss

Might check out the vent in that tank. I've read other posts where those things act up. Your problem acts like a faulty vent.