At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

The reason I suggested from the beginning for PVA is you Do Not have Wax In your Job..

How do you remove that wax agent from your spray.. ? .. acetone ?

How now do you Spot repair spray if you need to ? ..

PVA is water soluble .. wash it off with water and your contaminates are Way lower then sanding left over wax on the surface.

YD.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

The reason I suggested from the beginning for PVA is you Do Not have Wax In your Job..

How do you remove that wax agent from your spray.. ? .. acetone ?

How now do you Spot repair spray if you need to ? ..

PVA is water soluble .. wash it off with water and your contaminates are Way lower then sanding left over wax on the surface.

YD.

Thanks for the explanation YD, makes sense to use the PVA. The main reason I didn't use it though was because I am a first time sprayer and there was loads to think about at the time so I thought it would be easier to use the wax, as this was pre mixed by me and reduced the amount of spraying. The other thing I wasn't 100% confident in was applying the PVA at just the right curing point, I thought I would mess this up somehow and also I thought I would spray too much/little and cause more problems. Now that I have done a full respray ( if we can call it that lol.) I feel loads more confident if I had to spray it again (hope it doesn't come to this though) so the next time WILL be MUCH better and i will be using pva.

Cheers again YD

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Absolutly Not start fillin with a squeege to fill lows while in your spay app. That is what filling and fair is all about LOL.

Let me trick you here..your spraying gel..see them lows..hit them a bit harder on the passes ( trick here ) ... ( sprayable Filler basically ).. Hint..





Not on full spray .. It is not advisable to start slicking gel before/during a full gel spray..


You need to have your best fair job done with fairing compounds and longboards etc Before you start applying Any coatings..

Imagine your working with Paint..you have NO .. I mean NO chance to go back to your Fill and Fairouts !.

When its time to spay..your Done with the Prep ! I mean DONE !

Paint you cant really go back and fix..Gel you can..so your ok with this gel job. ( As you know its not paint..and its a learning curve as previously stated by you ) .

When its time to Gel or Paint..then its time.. Only when its time.

The fix-it-up after spray is Not a good Idea.. ..

Trust me..

YD.

I really have no idea what you just said.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

It's not over yet.

I had an hour this morning on the boat so I rushed this sanding work just to see if the gel was thick enough to sand on - seems that it will be.

As the orange peel was so severe I had to start with 120g hand sand with a board just to knock down the worst of it, I then moved to 180g on my DA then 240g with the DA, then 320g, 600g, 800g, 1000g, and 1200g with a board. I have to get a hold of some 400g to make the jump from 320 to 600 a little easier, but my supplier never had any but they will be getting some in for me. I never managed to remove all scratches but this was only because I was rushing, I will redo this area and spend some more time on it.

It's hard to see from these pics as the lighting in the garage is really bad but I got good results.

I will hopefully be posting better results though tomorrow.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I really have no idea what you just said.

Which part ?

The part of using anything other than the spray gun when spraying ( and NOT to start with squeegee tricks post spray ) ?

Or that you should have All the fairing done before you start spraying..

Ok Morebass.. you have your heavy orange peel ( Ive done worse trust me lol ) ..

What I would do is put a "guide coat" on your new gel. .. To help in the sanding process.

Get a new good fat magic marker and scribble the crap all over your boat ( make smiley faces and have your kids draw on it kinda thing : ) . Then with a wettish acetone rag smear that ink all over till you have an inked hue.

Sand with whatever you think is needed for the initial blockdown ( I would go No less then 220 grit ) until 70% of the peel is gone. Then switch grits until you have about 80% with 320 grit.

When 80% is sanded out switch to 400 grit and take it up to 90-95% peel gone.

Then do the whole marking/acetone thing again.. switch to 1000 grit until your ink is gone(ish) .

You dont need to sand the edge radius anymore then 400 grit ( dont keep sanding your radi more than 400 grit infact ).

Power tools like an air DA is used when sanding full sprays..but I dont think you want to do that..

YD.

PS. ask if you have any questions if you feel nervous about the process please ( Im watching ) .

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Ok Morebass.. you have your heavy orange peel ( Ive done worse trust me lol ) ..

What I would do is put a "guide coat" on your new gel. .. To help in the sanding process.

Get a new good fat magic marker and scribble the crap all over your boat ( make smiley faces and have your kids draw on it kinda thing : ) . Then with a wettish acetone rag smear that ink all over till you have an inked hue.

Sand with whatever you think is needed for the initial blockdown ( I would go No less then 220 grit ) until 70% of the peel is gone. Then switch grits until you have about 80% with 320 grit.

When 80% is sanded out switch to 400 grit and take it up to 90-95% peel gone.

Then do the whole marking/acetone thing again.. switch to 1000 grit until your ink is gone(ish) .

You dont need to sand the edge radius anymore then 400 grit ( dont keep sanding your radi more than 400 grit infact ).

Power tools like an air DA is used when sanding full sprays..but I dont think you want to do that..

YD.

PS. ask if you have any questions if you feel nervous about the process please ( Im watching ) .

Thanks again for the great advise YD.

I already started on a small area (previous post) and I started with 240g but it was taking forever even with a DA sander so I used 120g just to knock down the really high spots (block sanding), then I progressively worked up to 1200g. I know 120g is not whats recomended but I feel I will be here till next season if I used 220g to start.

Is it "OK" to start with something this course if it was just for a short period (just to knock off approx 50% orange peel)?

"You dont need to sand the edge radius anymore then 400 grit ( dont keep sanding your radi more than 400 grit infact )."

can you explain this a little more , what do you mean by the edge radius? sorry if this is a stupid question.

"Ok Morebass.. you have your heavy orange peel ( Ive done worse trust me lol ) .."

I'm glad you've been there before, I was tempted to not post the pics of the mess I made, lol.

But all is good, I should be able to get a good finish from the gel I have sprayed ( wont be a pro job but should be a good diy job)

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

The most amazing thing happened this morning, while I was sanding that small area the sweat was dripping from me and my arms were killing me, but amazingly I thought to myself " I'M ENJOYING THIS " This is the first time of my life I have enjoyed sanding. So to anyone out there that is still thinking about paint vs gelcoat or just dreading the gelcoat process, don't let the sanding steps put you off as the finish is so rewarding that it outweighs all the negatives (just my opinion though bearing in mind I only done a small section today, I'll let you know if I feel the same once it is finished , but IMHO I think I will feel the same if not better.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

You have done to much spraying with no face mask.....Go see the doc and take a few days off. Remeber to always wear a mask..or you wil start to enjoy sanding...:facepalm:


That much peel is a sign of poor atomization or a bad mix

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

You have done to much spraying with no face mask.....Go see the doc and take a few days off. Remeber to always wear a mask..or you wil start to enjoy sanding...:facepalm:


That much peel is a sign of poor atomization or a bad mix

LOL. I thought I could smell fumes while I was spraying, damn 3M respos, I will be looking for a refund lol.

It wasn't a bad mix as I am sure it was down to poor atomization as I previously mentioned, the fluid/air ratio was wrong.

 

[alanc21boat]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

all ryt mate just looking at your work yer doing a good job keep up the good work tryed phoneing ye sunday copeland

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

all ryt mate just looking at your work yer doing a good job keep up the good work tryed phoneing ye sunday copeland

Good to have ye on board mate, how are you getting on with yours. Have you had her in the water yet.

sorry I missed you on sunday but you know me , I'm a hard man to get a hold of.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Not much progress today (only had an hour again on the boat)

I originally started sanding the gel with 120g as previously mentioned but as discussed this is too course. So today I started with 180g on the DA (still coarser than whats recomended but not as bad as the 120g) just to knock down the worst of it, I am planning to sand the entire hull to 400g then the boat will be going back on the trailer and it will be getting moved outside for the remaining sanding steps & buffing compounds. So there wont be much progress/pics for the next few days but once I get to the finer grits (400g +) I will post some pics , by then there will be a noticeable difference.

 

[nymack66]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

In my honest opinion no one should even attempt PVA outside of a paint booth unless you have extensive experience with Gel. PVA requires skills not acquired on a blog but real practice and experience for the record I do NOT have.
Consider this, PVA not applied correctly leaves you with tacky uncured Gel with a contaminated surface with PVA attacking the Gel, good luck cleaning this mess up.
http://www.rexco-usa.com/faq.htm
Morebass the peel you shown is beyond my comprehension why this happened to you. Gun, Air pressure who knows.
I am sorry this happened its was NOT what I expected after the perpetration and work involved. Sand carefully tape off the ridges if not you be doing this over again.
Take your time sanding it will be saved its one of the many pros of Gel , hang in there..

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Morebass the peel you shown is beyond my comprehension why this happened to you. Gun, Air pressure who knows.
I am sorry this happened its was NOT what I expected after the perpetration and work involved. Sand carefully tape off the ridges if not you be doing this over again.
Take your time sanding it will be saved its one of the many pros of Gel , hang in there..

Thanks for the support nymack66,

The heavy orange peel was a mistake by me. As this was my first spray job I was paranoid about the gel kicking on me. So I had the fluid setting turned up all the way so I could empty the pot quicker. Because I was forcing so much fluid out the air at the tip could'nt atomize this properly, Once I had adjusted the air/fluid ratio correctly I got a much better/finer spray pattern, but by this time the damage was done. I sprayed the gel much thicker to compensate for the orange peel, so I am confident I wont sand through. I have only sanded a small area so far but it's looking good, but as you say I will be taking my time with the coarser grits and hopefully I can sand down all the orange peel without sanding through. In saying that, there is quite a large section above the waterline that I will be painting anyway so if I sand through on these areas it wont be the end of the world.

 

[alanc21boat]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

all ryt mate you dun the bottom of yer boat willy wis saying you were going ta flip it round

The heavy orange peel was a mistake by me. As this was my first spray job I was paranoid about the gel kicking on me. So I had the fluid setting turned up all the way so I could empty the pot quicker. Because I was forcing so much fluid out the air at the tip could'nt atomize this properly, Once I had adjusted the air/fluid ratio correctly I got a much better/finer spray pattern, but by this time the damage was done. I sprayed the gel much thicker to compensate for the orange peel, so I am confident I wont sand through. I have only sanded a small area so far but it's looking good, but as you say I will be taking my time with the coarser grits and hopefully I can sand down all the orange peel without sanding through. In saying that, there is quite a large section above the waterline that I will be painting anyway so if I sand through on these areas it wont be the end of the world.[/QUOTE]

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Well not much has been getting done, I've been really busy the past few days (unfortunately not boat related) I have sanded the majority of the boat to 240g, there is still some orange peel though and there is one or two small areas that I have sanded through, but these areas was going to be painted anyway. I have moved the boat outside now so any future work is now weather dependant, so it will probably be slow progress for the next few weeks untill the better weather comes. Heres a few pics of where I am at, not much to look at just now but im still confident i will get an acceptable finish.

 

[alanc21boat]

all ryt mate just looking at your boat there looks good yer doing a good job keep up the good work going down tae loch lomond the mora tae pay fir service hopefully be sold very soon

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

all ryt mate just looking at your boat there looks good yer doing a good job keep up the good work going down tae loch lomond the mora tae pay fir service hopefully be sold very soon

Thanks mate, once i get some more time on it I should get it looking much better.

Hope everything goes well with selling yours, once you've sold it you could always buy a 17' cruiser , partly gelcoated , upside down hull with 2000 hours work left to do. Interested ?? lol

 

[alanc21boat]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Thanks mate, once i get some more time on it I should get it looking much better.

Hope everything goes well with selling yours, once you've sold it you could always buy a 17' cruiser , partly gelcoated , upside down hull with 2000 hours work left to do. Interested ?? lol

al ryt mate went down tae the boat the day the guy wis not even there tryed phoneing him nothing could not get a hold of him so a went looking fir him in all the yards got him sitting on a boat smokeing a *** down at the council bit at loch lomond a think he wis shocked tae see me cause he turn his phone of he said he wid have it done for monday bastard a could have kick his head in all that way fir **** all he could have phoned me and said not tae come down no not him he turns his phone af anyway left the money way simon so he can get it cant wait to get shot of that boat nothing bit problems all l seen when a wis down there people out on there boats haveing good time na no me different day another boat cant wait well anyway battery wis dead on ma boat left the power on more bad luck need to go back down the mora way charged battery thank god you did not take your charger back a will get it down to you going down tae steveys boat the mora tae put a starter on it a will need tae drop battery in at ma boat fir that guy hopefully thats that cant see it lol

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

al ryt mate went down tae the boat the day the guy wis not even there tryed phoneing him nothing could not get a hold of him so a went looking fir him in all the yards got him sitting on a boat smokeing a *** down at the council bit at loch lomond a think he wis shocked tae see me cause he turn his phone of he said he wid have it done for monday a could have kick his head in all that way fir **** all he could have phoned me and said not tae come down no not him he turns his phone af anyway left the money way simon so he can get it cant wait to get shot of that boat nothing bit problems all l seen when a wis down there people out on there boats haveing good time na no me different day another boat cant wait well anyway battery wis dead on ma boat left the power on more bad luck need to go back down the mora way charged battery thank god you did not take your charger back a will get it down to you going down tae steveys boat the mora tae put a starter on it a will need tae drop battery in at ma boat fir that guy hopefully thats that cant see it lol

Not gettin much luck mate, hopefully he gets his finger out and does what you've paid him to do. just think though by the time the good weather is here (if it ever gets here !!) you should be all set to hit the water sipping an ice cold beer. hope it all works out for you mate.

P.S. If you get a chance edit your post, I don't want you getting kicked off for swearing mate.