ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Kenneth Brown

Captain
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

I think you have the title wrong. I believe its supposed to say "Enemies of Plywoody"
 

Kilgore Trout

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Messages
126
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Congress and the presidency are pretty much republican controlled. And as of yesterday, Republicans govern the majority of the states<br /><br />So a lot of those quotes regarding congress and government must be directed at them.
 

streadway

Seaman
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
66
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

a friend of mine said it best( one party wants to steal it the other wants to give it away)
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

I agree Carp King, that about sums the whole thing up.
 

plywoody

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685
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Hmm...If government is the enemy, why is it expanding at unprecedented levels under the current administration?<br />And how is expanding it going to fix it?
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

The problem with these arguments, and labels generally, is that they make up a definition of the opponent (in this case, a supposed liberal) and then proceed to tear it down. It may be entertaining, but it is far from enlightening.<br /><br />It assumes that all liberals are socialists, and liberals could fashion a similar argument to suggest that all conservatives are fascists. <br /><br />Some may be, on either side, but it does nothing to further the debate.<br /><br />You could take any issue and specifically debate it, but I will just take one for now: Health Care.<br /><br />Right now the government is involved in a debate over a 400 billion dollar medicare and prescription drug benefit package...So clearly both sides of the aisle are assuming that the government has some role in providing at least some of its citizens some form of health care. The debate is not whether the government should provide it, but what form it should take.<br /><br />Many other countries provide some form of universal health care, and in those countries, the infant mortality rate is lower than the US, and life expectancy rate is higher. The US spends more per capita on health care than any of these other countries.<br /><br />There is room for legitimate debate on this issue, as universal health care has its problems, and vast numbers of uninsured citizens has its own set of problems.<br /><br />Your little set of quotes would suggest that perhaps there should be a legitimate position that the government should have no role in health care whatsoever, and those that can afford it should get care, while those that cannot afford it should simply go without.<br /><br />That does not seem to be the case in any of the official positions of any of the major parties...<br />So why don't we just get on with a legitimate debate on specific issues, and throw this label stuff out as being superficial and silly and not realistic in any way.
 

cobra 3.0

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
1,797
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

In the end government is government. It's only the color of the jersey's that change. There has to be some semblance of helping the middle class, while they fill the coffers of their already rich supporters.
 

SCO

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Aug 19, 2001
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

There is room for difference of opinion here Plywoody. I would counter that it is not about who should and who should not get health care. If you go the Hillary route, then everyone gets inadequate health care and it costs a lot because its free and every sniffle will be addressed on the taxpayer dime. If you pay for it yourself, then you get good healthcare when you need it. If it is free they will take it, and flock to this country for it. We would be providing negative incentives to do anything but sit around your government provided house eating potato flakes bought with food stamps all the while complaining that its the "mans" fault. Do you recognize that as a negative Plywoody, and how do you address that? People do better when they have to provide for themselves. Do we want/need some kind of safety net? yes. Is health care a right? no. What socialists propose is a reverse darwinism which reduces the vigor of the society at large...Ref the fall of the USSR.<br /><br />Cobra, you are obviously resentfull of those that "make it" in this country. Well, those that make it contribute a lot more than any of us po folk in terms of providing work for others, taxes by themselves and those that work for them, and cash flow into the economy whether it be by supporting their luxury boat builder or cadillac dealer who in turn hire armies of workers to sell the yachts and caddys. If you guys succeed in tearing down capitalism, you tear down yourselves and the country. Our capitalism is the sole reason we are currently number one! You want to be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem??? then get out there and "make it" yourself.
 

oddjob

Commander
Joined
Jun 19, 2002
Messages
2,723
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Let me get in on the healthcare debate...ahh No! I vote no on the freebe. <br /><br />Awe gezz, now I so mean and self centered. Just like Fascist pig :D
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Plywoody, if read the definition of the word "fascist" then it wouldbe clear that Clinton was clearly a fascist. I don't know the libs ever figured they could say conservatives were fascist, other than that no one knows the meaning of th word and they could easily link conservatives with NAZI's making conservatives appear evil to the uneducated masses.<br /><br />As for th governement in general, both side are swimming in the same toilet as far I'm concerned, I just vote for the side that is likely to do the least damage to my wallet :D
 

Boomyal

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Joined
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Messages
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Plywoody: As far as your arguement;<br /><br />"It assumes that all liberals are socialists, and liberals could fashion a similar argument to suggest that all conservatives are fascists."<br /><br />as relates to national healthcare and other "rob peter to pay paul" giveaways, you would have to say that those who adhere to the tenents of the Constitution were facists. I hardly belive that to be the case. <br /><br />The Constitution clearly states the role of the Federal Govt. in our lives, ie;<br /><br /> TO PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE AND TO<br /> PROMOTE (do I need to quote Webster here)<br /> THE GENERAL WELFARE.<br /><br />It's maybe not so strange that today's Liberals, in a quest for their social agenda, conveniantly ignore much of what is in the Constitution then try to say that those that adhere to it are uncaring, mean (mean people suck), bigoted, facists.<br /><br />The ideas put forth in the Constitution were formulated by some of the most brilliant men that God ever put forth on this earth.<br /><br />I say that those that believe in the Constitution are the moderates (Conservatives) and that those who pick, chose and ignore it (Liberals) are the Extremists.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 11, 2002
Messages
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Hmm...My definition of fascism...from Merriam Webster:<br /><br />1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition<br /><br />------------<br /><br />You sure can draw parallels between this and the Conservatives just as easily as you can draw parallels between "liberals" and socialists.<br /><br />Centralized government? How bout the entire conservative movement reading from virtually the same script all of the time, with presidential and conservative attacks on the press, especially in Iraq, on an almost constant basis.<br /><br />Severe economic regimentation? Read tax cuts for the wealthy...End of the estate tax...etc. etc.<br /><br />Suppresion of the opposition? Read "Dixie Chicks"<br />Or Rummy and many others saying those that question the US policy are not patriotic.<br />Or the big sellers in the conservative book world this year:<br /><br />Treason---Ann Coulter<br />Shut up and sing---Laura Ingraham<br /><br />All with the treatise that we need to shut up dissenters...<br /><br />Re: Health Care--I did not even offer a personal positition of my own--only the fact that some sort of health care seems to be a given, and the argument is not over whether we need it, but what form it takes.<br />Hillary was charged with coming up with a plan for universal health care for all citizens--which is what she did. We don't really know if that is the plan she favors or not.<br />I haved lived in Canada as well as the US, and know that there are flaws in the Canadian system of universal health care for sure. No doubt no system is perfect. I think you will find out that the majority that argue we don't need health care either are covered now, or on welfare and already covered anyway.<br /><br />But the point is there are extremes on either side of this issue. We have already seen one argue that since the founding fathers did not address health care, we should not have it. Since it has only been in the last century or so when a person actually was better off seeking medical help than avoiding it, it is not totally surprising that no mention of it was made more than two centuries ago.<br /><br />Perhaps some would argue that we should have completely universal all access anytime free medical care on the other side...No one I know, and certainly not me, but perhaps there are some... <br /><br />It is where, in my opinion, the Canadian system falls short. There should be catastrophic coverage for all Americans, IMHO, with a deductible co-pay up to a certain level--perhaps depending on ability to pay...and there should be an incentive to stay healthy and refrain from getting medical help for any little sniffle--<br /><br />But there is of course room for argument and debate in this---but we do live in a society and there are certain things that are done in a civilized society that makes it a civilized society, IMHO.
 

jimchere

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
321
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

The dictionary to real life? That's how you see it? I thought you were a working man, not a lawyer. <br />How about this: Show me how the current administration "exalts nation above race and the individual." As in Howard Dean purporting the need for the vote of those southerners in pickup trucks with confederate flags.<br /><br />------------<br /><br />"Centralized government? How bout the entire conservative movement reading from virtually the same script all of the time, with presidential and conservative attacks on the press, especially in Iraq, on an almost constant basis."<br /><br />Please, show some facts on this one. Ever read the NYT? Reuters reports? Your facts to support here:<br /><br />Severe economic regimentation? Read tax cuts for the wealthy...End of the estate tax...etc. etc.<br />Hate to tell you Ply, but my Grandmother, who passed away this summer, was sitting on 1100 acres of land in the Texas hill country that was in our family since that early 1800s and purely agricultural. She lived off of social security and FAMILY ASSISTANCE/WE LOVE MOM for the past 20+ years. We just lost that land because nobody in the family, even with pooled resources, could affort the "estate taxes for the rich." Pack that one up your *** .<br /><br />"Suppresion of the opposition? Read "Dixie Chicks"<br />Or Rummy and many others saying those that question the US policy are not patriotic.<br />Or the big sellers in the conservative book world this year:<br />Treason---Ann Coulter<br />Shut up and sing---Laura Ingraham"<br /><br />How about: Al Franken, Lies and the Liars that tel them.<br />How about Barbara Streisand? The prime time TV show "West Wing"?, Harrison Ford? Matthew Broderick? Madonna? Katie Couric? Dan Rather? Cokie Roberts? Brian Rather? ........Don't want to keep typing but if you want, Ply, I can go on for a while............<br /> Guess what: the entertainment industry is a BUSINESS. And if nobody wants to do BUSINESS with them because they disagree with the BUSINESS owners beliefs/morals, then that's the CONSUMER's BUSINESS to not do so. Yep, I won't ever listen to the Dixie Chick's again, and won't buy their records, and Hollywood and its big bucks....anyone? The ratings drive the media, because this is a CAPITALIST country. Don't like it? Go to a non-CAPITALIST country. Enjoy your freedom of speech. Dissenters? I urge you to go to http://www.dnc.org/news and check out the DNC "blog." If you don't agree, they delete your post darn near immediately.<br />Nice talking with you, ply. Come back. Your still an American and I'll talk with you anyday.<br /><br />Re: Health Care--This is a valuable area for debate. I don't get personal on the web, but I do know more than I wish about this from family circumstances. The Hillary plan would not have done anyone well.
 

streadway

Seaman
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
66
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

all i know is that my health insurance went up $300 (a month).instead of creating zip codes and asking for 100 mil to re-flood marsh lands in iraq.the money would be better spent on buying the high priced medical equipment that doctors and hospitals need.that would lower the cost of health care,and insurance.that would not be welfare for a few.that would benefit everybody
 

rodbolt

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Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

wow I gotta jump in here as well. my father just got home from an 8 day stay in chesapeake general hospital. as a retired boeing employee his insurance will cover most of it, the problem now is the dianoses. mesothelioma they want to remove the entire right lung and scrape the chest cavity. first they will check the lymphatic system to insure none is found there. If they find any mesothelioma there then he gets sent home to die. how did he get this you ask? he never smoked rarely drank and I have never seen him have more than 2. I can count the alchoholic beverages he has drank on both hands for the past 5 years. he got this nasty disiase building warships for the US NAVY. its due to acute asbetos exposure, how do we afford the multi-million dollar life saving treatments that bubba dubya will get and he was almost a draft dodger. there should be some type of national catastrophic insurance. but i dont believe in cradle to grave insurance.
 

Toad2001

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Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
403
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

I wonder how many folks who are harsh towards "pay for your own heath care", or "tough if you don't have any", have ever been faced with a serious sickness or disease.<br />It can strike anyone at anytime you know. Imagine going from being a healthy (young or old) student or employee with no insurance or benefits to cancerous and bankrupt. Finances should be the least of ones worries at a time of such an unfortunate time.<br />Nobody ever thinks it will happen to them, but trust me, it can.
 

Boomyal

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Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Yeah Guys, and while you are all at it, deciding how to spend my money, maybe you could pony up for a new car for me. Mine just broke and you know I'll just starve if I don't have a car to drive to work. It's just not fair that I have to take on such a large personal responsibily. I mean, I'd take public transportation but those mean wascally right wing extremist won't lay right down and let the money be siphoned out of their pockets for it.<br /><br />Gee Whiz! Where does it stop. Yesterday it was free lunches for your kids, today it's government health care, tomorrow they'll want me to pay for you to stay home when you have babies. What you say? That's already happening?<br /><br />WHEN IT COMES TO THE GOVERNMENT PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE, THAT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN SAYING THAT I HAVE TO GET UP EVERY MORNING AND SPEND A PORTION OF MY DAY WORKING FOR YOU FOR NOTHING.<br />I DON'T WANT TO BE MADE TO WORK FOR YOU FOR NOTHING.
 

Skinnywater

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Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Lawsuits are the reason healthcare and insurance costs are the way they are. Without tort reform, accepting personal responsibilty and a much greater participation at the voting booths none of this is going to get any better.<br /><br />The democratic party isn't the same party it was back in the '50's. It's mostly elitists and minority groups with thier own interests put before the countrys.<br />However, the Republican party is hardly much better. It's also for its own special interests and paybacks to large political contributors. In addition, it's also changing from the party it was during the Reagan years. It is becoming much more liberal and its quest to grow the government is astounding.<br /><br />Yeah, the democratic partys power base is shameless and mostly disgustingly liberal. Plywoodys example and his referenced statement of facism in the Republican party completely eludes me. But the Republican party is still as shameless and self serving. They both are responsible of ruining this country. Just that one is ruining it a little faster then the other.<br />The democratic party is a good example of emerging socialism. The Rebublican party is a good example of suedo-conservatism.<br /><br />Repeal the 17th ammendment, the 16th will follow and the 10th will mean what it says.
 

Boomyal

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Messages
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Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Good words Skinny. All true. I almost jumped into Tort Reform in my last post, but thought it for a different time.<br /><br />But SkinnyW, that's an awful conservative viewpoint for someone from CA. I did't think there were to many of you left since California started to be called "The Left Coast" :D
 
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