ATTENTION: All you liberals...

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

We have a tough job Toad. Saving the free worlds Bacon is stressfull.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Thats a whole other discussion...

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

tlands,<br /><br />Article 1.<br />Section. 3. Of the US Constitution<br />Clause 1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators<br />from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six<br />Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.<br /><br />The original Constitution as written by our forefathers had the Senators appointed, or removed by the states legislature. The Senators were answerable to the individual states legislatures, did that states bidding, apportioned thier own states taxes to that state. This by nature leaves them in touch with that states constituency and that states peoples needs. Using that states taxes to be directed in the appropriate need.<br />Today it's different, the Senate now directs state taxes from the federal government. The Senate is now disconnected from the state, to the federal government.<br /><br />More important the 17th created a major departure from federalism. The 17th eliminates a simple check and balance available to the states over federal power and Congress in any area.<br />This has proven to expand federal control in every area. Essentially preempting thye 10th ammendment.<br />Failure in federalist structure has directly caused federal deficit spending, inappropriate federal mandates, and federal control over a number of state institutions. <br />The amendment also caused a fundamental breakdown in campaign finance issues with respect to United States Senators. As to United States Senators, campaign finance reform, which has been a hot topic in Congress, can be best achieved by repealing the 17th Amendment to the United States Constitution. It should be readily apparent that United States Senators, once appointed by the state legislature, would have no need for campaign financing whatsoever.<br /><br />In essence, my local county and state government is easy to control by its own citizens. The federal government should be the easiest to control by the people, since it has so many limitations on its power.<br /><br />There's alot on the www about this.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

regarding "Your gifts from your government has made you weaker then I.",<br />Its also I suppose what has contributed to the fact that Canada is rated the #3 Best Country in the World to live in compared to the US which is rated at #6.<br />Weaker? How can you say that when your mortality rate is so relatively high?

I've not heard about a mass exodus from the US into Canada for a while. When I do, it's in the form of draft dodgers and cowards. <br />I'll challenge your government to open your immigration to all Americans that want free healthcare, your liberal government and #3 lifestyle. <br />Take study of the ones that come running. <br />Judge for yourself if they are the stong and most desireable.<br /><br />How a country works and plays and how it produces is also relevant to the mortality rate.<br />Another common theme among Americans is strong convictions regarding intense independence and pride. <br />This can influence mortality also.<br /><br />Obviously, your right where you want to be. You're doing and having it done as you feel comfortable. In fact you're proud of Canadian ways, as a Canadian should be. <br />While we make fair to good neighbors, I just can't comprehend or accept an American wanting Canadian ways or government, make him a good American.<br /><br />SCO, also made very clear the connection regarding this and the weakness issue.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Getting slightly off track...<br />Bottom line, we have a fair and equitable system for all, and lawyers rarely see a dime. Insurance companies see zero. You can't tell me there couldn't be huge cost savings there...There is no hospital competition for patient loads. I would like to see a modest user fee to eliminate hangnail and sniffle visits, but right now its free free free.<br />Yes, we pay lots in taxes here, and I wish it were less, but I value the services we have in place for the less fortunate.<br /><br />Stay heathly, yaaal'.<br />PS-cigarettes here are $8/for a 20 pack. The excess goes into the heathcare kitty to fix your lungs when you eventually get sick. Makes sense huh?<br />

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Toad, I've seen this tact before from liberals.<br /><br />Anytime solid and viable arguements are made that are squarely on point. They are the ones that shift from the point.<br /><br />

PS-cigarettes here are $8/for a 20 pack. The excess goes into the heathcare kitty to fix your lungs when you eventually get sick. Makes sense huh?

It makes sense to do this, since your government doesn't trust its subjects to take responsibility for thier own lives, health and well being.<br /><br />Thank you for this exchange Toad2001. I've enjoyed it very much.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Skinnywater:<br />When will we learn that we can't argue about the time proven merits (and the long term pitfalls in the absence thereof) of individual responibilty with someone who thinks it just dandy that someone else, out of the goodness (sic) of their hearts, wants to do it all for them.<br /><br />It's just exactly like Sir Tytler said, all those years ago;<br /><br />"From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury,...."

 

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

If it works there , great then Toad. Over here with our defense burdens and immigration problems, it would be a disaster.

 

[plywoody]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

The reason I said it was irrelevant in the current debate is because it is irrelevant in the current debate.<br />Sure a Darwinian theory works fine in the forests, and would probably work fine in society if followed as well (at least for those that are strong).<br /><br />Unfortunately, even Karl Marx finally figured out that any utopian system ultimately breaks down under forces of reality and human nature.

 

[oddjob]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

You guys are wearing me out... .. and your being such gentlemen. If you read PW's last post without the context behind it, he doesnt sound left at all.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Sure a Darwinian theory works fine in the forests, and would probably work fine in society if followed as well (at least for those that are strong).

I'm afraid in twenty years or so, all this left, right, democrat, republican debate. And quotes from forefathers and reverence to the Constitution, will prove to be a huge waste of time and energy.<br />The entire thing has been so corrupted and more and more are running to the trough.<br />We're likely in the stage of it's all done except for the shouting.<br /><br />plywoody, your posts have changed since you've eliminated the leftist one liner rhetoric and post more from the heart. <br />I do appreciate your involvement also.<br /><br />Hopefully on some other cold, rainey weekend we could get a 100 plus poster dedicated to the corruption of the Constitution.....sadly, for fun.

 

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

PW, the cornerstone of my arguement is that you have to account for human nature prior to hatching grand welfare schemes. The laws of nature apply always. For example, if you pay unwed mothers for having children, soon you have a society working to get that free money by raising families without fathers. The boys from these families end up shooting each other, and maybe you.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Hey SCO, you didn't finish~~<br /><br />The boys from these families end up shooting each other, and maybe you, WHILE THE GIRLS FROM THOSE FAMILIES END UP HAVING MORE BOYS THAT GO OUT AND SHOOT EACH OTHER AND MORE GIRLS THAT GO OUT AND HAVE MORE BOYS THAT ~ YADA YADA AND GIRLS THAT ~ YADA, YADA to the 10th POWER.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Not if they don't have easy access to guns...

 

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Lets all resist the urge to derail the thread. I wonder if the guns n boats thread was deleted by the famous Steve incident?? Anyway, that's pretty lame Toad. Let's just talk about the creation of a criminal subculture then to avoid getting into that one right now. The problem with well meaning liberals is that their policies don't work because these giveaway schemes reward mediocrity, giving mediocrity a niche to exploit so to speak. The welfare fiasco created far more misery than it solved. How can that be compassionate?

 

[Toad2001]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

SCO- I don't know what you are talking about. This is the only post I've been following in this section of iboats. I haven't read the guns and boats post, and I don't know Steve.<br /><br />Edited. You can disagree, but name calling is not allowed. Moderator1

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

<br />Dang SCO, that was so predictable wasn't it?<br />

 

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Dang, sorry I missed the name calling prior to the edit. All I said was that it was a lame arguement and I said that because it was a sidestep of the issue at hand. Is that worth a personal insult?? And the guns n boats thread was a hot thread, one of the first, and I mention it so you can read it instead of rehashing the whole thing. All you want to know aboutthe gun debate and more!!( http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002995 <br />). Unfortunately, and this is a bit funny to most of us, when managing the database, a "Steve" inadvertantly deleted a big hunk of the database. Guns n boats may have been deleted. Yep Skinny, you've got em on the run when they start slurring you .

 

[Toad2001]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

In case you did miss it, I suggested you were paranoid. <br /><br />Trying to have a discussion with you folks is like clapping with one hand.

 

[SCO]

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

Re: ATTENTION: All you liberals...

That's a trite stereotype that goes back to the movie "Joe". I just disagree with your thought process and am showing why. Where's the paranoia? The radical Muslim threat? Heard of 911? Maybe you are not paranoid enough. Maybe you have your head in the sand. Maybe you think that if we just change our ways or just not provoke them they won't hurt us. What's your view Toad?