automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

[capslock118]

I have the rule 500 bilge pump. My boat is at a dock the entire season.

It's been a good pump since i've owned the boat from 2008. So what happens with this bilge is it suppose to go off every 2 min. for 3 seconds. If it "detects" water, it's suppose stay on until no more water is left. It doesn't do this by way of an exterior float, something internal to the pump (maybe a small internal float?) tells it to stay on or turn off.

....

.....

Long story short it's obvious the automatic part of the bilge has failed. I want...no, at this point, need...to replace this pump.

So what is your suggestion? a 500GPM seems to be the right size for my boat (see sig), my budget is tight too. This isn't something I want to skimp on, but you know how it is.

Do I stay with Rule, or, is there something else out there?

EDIT: on the one hand if i replace the rule 500 with another one, the base is already installed so that would make life a bit easier (trying to access the bilge in our sea ray is, well, terribly troubling.

I also want automatic ability, ability to shut off, and have manual override.

 

[tractoman]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Are you sure the pump is wired properly? My sea ray is auto and manual too but it's an external float and I can manually test it a couple times a year which I do atthe float switch and I click it on once in awhile to make sure I can hear it run. If yours is a single unit it must be 3 wires, and maybe a fuse for the auto side is blown or isn't getting 12 volts. I am not sure how they wire them. I want a larger volume pump just in case. A torn drive bellow could sink a boat quickly if it is bad enough and I think most pumps only move about 70-80% of thier listed volume. Ribbed outlet hose will lower it even more.

 

[Cannondale]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Easiest thing to do is just what you suspect.....replace the old one with its exact duplicate. That way you'll know the blue plastic base will fit the replacement pump. Should last years, just like your old one did.

 

[capslock118]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

tractorman - I would have thought the same thing. I installed the wiring myself in 2010 and followed the instruction manual for the rule 500 to a T. It does not have a float switch and Rule makes a point about that in the manual:

Rule Automatic bilge pumps eliminate the need for a separate float switch to activate the pump. Once power is supplied, starting and stopping is completely automatic. The pump checks for water every 2 1⁄2 minutes by turning on for a second and measuring load against the impeller. If water is present, the pump remains on until the water is removed. Thereafter the pump resumes its 2 1⁄2 minute check cycle. The automatic pumps feature two positive leads: an automatic (brown) and a manual override (brown with a white stripe).

As far as he wiring - power comes from the dash fuse, which then powers the switch which I use to turn off the bilge, or put it into auto or manual mode. It was definitely on auto mode.


Here is the thing. I noticed last week when the boat was on land (and stupidly ignored), then when in auto mode, it seemed like the pump was barely able to turn on for it's auto cycle - it sounded as if it was dying. I ignored it because manual mode worked perfectly fine.

My battery might be dying (i posted about this in an earlier thread) so maybe that might have something to do with it. But again, manual mode pumped all the water out for a good 30-45 minuets.

 

[hungupthespikes]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

OP: "when in auto mode, it seemed like the pump was barely able to turn on for it's auto cycle - it sounded as if it was dying. I ignored it because manual mode worked perfectly fine."

Sounds like the Auto feed or the circuit in the pump has a bad connection, lots of resistance, lowering the voltage. Swap the wires at the switch, if auto ( switch in manual, but auto feed to pump) is still weak then it's the pump.

 

[capslock118]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Sounds like the Auto feed or the circuit in the pump has a bad connection, lots of resistance, lowering the voltage.

Hmm - this past spring tuneup I noticed that one of the wires corroded at the butt connector for the pump. I just clipped off where the wires were green and put in a new butt connector. Maybe there is something more to it then that as you suggest - i'll look into it prior to a full replacement.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Sounds like a perfect way to kill your battery if you stay away from the boat for a while. Why would you not put in a float switch and have the pump run only when water is present?

500GPH pump is $23.00.
Float switch is $20.00.
No dead battery and a sunk boat=priceless.

 

[nlain]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Another thing, you said "corroded at butt connector", you need to get some heat shrink and seal those connections to prevent that corrosion. I just replace my pump, external float switch, I used butt connectors and heat shrink. Open connectors are not good, should water get that high and get in both + and - wires you short out and blow fuse, pump quits.

 

[capslock118]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Sounds like a perfect way to kill your battery if you stay away from the boat for a while. Why would you not put in a float switch and have the pump run only when water is present?

The pump turning on every two minutes for 3 seconds would take the entire season to kill the battery (.9A & 12V + time).

Another thing, you said "corroded at butt connector", you need to get some heat shrink and seal those connections to prevent that corrosion.

Agreed. So I checked everything out today. The wire that is feeding the auto bilge is a 14 awg wire that I installed last year. The 14 awg goes from the 3-switch to the pump and butt connects to the pump - now - last year I happened to use heat shrink butt connectors and they look perfect; I also used heat shrink on the ground. The wire that did not have a heat shrink on it was the wire that powers the manual override.

As that is the case I am not sure where to go from here. At one point today while I was mucking around with everything the pump was not acknowledging even the manual override - but that quickly fixed itself somehow.

That said I am leaning towards a dying pump.

 

[hungupthespikes]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

OP: "I just clipped off where the wires were green and put in a new butt connector. "

That's not far enough back on the wire. The green part is bad for sure, but so is the black or discolored copper. Need to cut out all the wire until you get to the new looking wire. If you don't get it all, most of the time the corrosion will be back in short order. You'll find it inside the butt connection. If it's not too much of a PITA, replace all the wire you can. No butt connections, I hate those things. If you have to use them then use something like this.
http://www.iboats.com/Ancor-Heat-Sh...15544636--**********.092239856--view_id.21943
They are expensive but good wire and the Anchor connections will last a long time.

As for the pump, low voltage to any electric motor is a quick death, so yea, the pump needs replaced if the manual is showing problems too. That's one of the downsides for the automatic cycle pumps. They run a lot more than the float style and if low voltage is present then the motors fail in much less time. Just not a big fan of electronics of any kind, on a boat, old school I guess.

 

[beckoning]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

I recommend you call Rule and talk it through with them. They may ask you to send the pump portion back to them to inspect. They have a great reputation and I would personally replace the auto 500gpm with an identical. They are readily available on the internet everywhere from amazon to Walmart.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

I don't like the idea of the ones that come on and off regardless if need. Go with a seperate float switch. just my opinion

 

[Beefer]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

So what is your suggestion? a 500GPM seems to be the right size for my boat (see sig), my budget is tight too. This isn't something I want to skimp on, but you know how it is.

Do I stay with Rule, or, is there something else out there?

EDIT: on the one hand if i replace the rule 500 with another one, the base is already installed so that would make life a bit easier (trying to access the bilge in our sea ray is, well, terribly troubling.

I also want automatic ability, ability to shut off, and have manual override.

Personally, I would go bigger than 500gph. The cost difference is truly minimal, and removing water from the interior of your boat is something you want done as quickly as possible. I have a 22', and have a 1500gph Rule, and an 1100gph Rulemate. My personal rule-of-thumb is at least 100gph rated pumping capacity per 1' of boat length. I'd like to bump that rule to 200gph/1'.

Rule is good, but I, as others, don't like the kind that 'check' for water. It can result in dead batteries, and boats being sunk at the dock. Go with a float switch, or the RuleMate, which has an internal non-mercury float switch that turns it on when the water level rises.

Remember, the primary objective in successful boating is keeping the water on the outside of the boat at all costs.

 

[Beefer]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Oh, and the downside to the RuleMate is that if the float goes, you have to replace the whole unit, whereas with an external float, you can replace just the float. In my case, space is at a bare minimum, so the RM was my best option.

 

[capslock118]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

well i tried to replace with the same pump type and it turns out it must either be the wire or the switch. Same problem exists with the brand new pump.

I'll have to bring my ohm meter on board to check the switch prior buying anything else.

 

[nlain]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

I recently changed my pump, last year the last time I cleaned it I noticed the pump not working, started checking and found both fuses were blown, replaced fuses and it worked fine, this year getting ready to use and doing some maint I reached down and worked the float switch and the pump ran but made a lot of noise, so I replaced it. I don't where you checked for fuses, mine has two, one up on the main boat fuse panel for manual operation and then one back in the engine compartment for the external float switch.

 

[seabob4]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

Just my 2 cents regarding the longevity of pumps and floats. Pumps, properly wired, debris kept out of their bases, and proper voltage to the motor, almost last forever. I have a 20 year old Rule 1500 in my shop that, even though the windings on the motor are black, still runs. Floats? Your lucky to get 5 years out of them, Rule-a-Matic or otherwise...

 

[capslock118]

Re: automatic bilge failed (luckily, manual override still worked) - recommendations

after testing I found it was the automatic wire (solid brown) that was bad. Not sure where along the wire it became bad, I have not pulled it out yet to inspect; just put the new one in.

For all I know the insides corroded to dust - seems to be the story with my boat :/