Axius Gen 1 Removal

[Frankec3]

My boat is a 2009 bayliner, twin 350 mag bravo 3 duo prop and has the first gen axius steering. Took the boat out and while on plane the boat made a hard turn left turn and i totally lost steering. I refer to the manual and it said to shut down the engines and restart to regain steering. I did and the steering came back. Got on plane again and it did the same thing. opened the engine hatch and there was a bunch of steering fluid in the bilge. Chased the leak all summer and realize that Rod seal had failed on the axis hydraulic cylinder. I was able to find a local guy to replace the seals and found that a solenoid valve was also cracked. I bought that part to replace, but I am considering getting rid of all the axis steering and going with a seastar hydraulic steering system. I don’t like the idea that the drives move independently and that there could be a total loss of steering. My only concern is I am not sure if the ECU will put the engines in limp mode because the axis steering is removed. I called Mercury and talk to them and they told me because of liability they could not recommend or give me any insight on a fix unless I had a mercury certified dealer do a complete overhaul of the engine, transom housing, and out drives. That seems like a crazy solution. Has anybody had experience with axius and or removed their axius steering. And what was your experience when you did?

 

[alldodge]

Hey @muc if you can have a look hear

 

[muc]

I haven't helped people to remove it, but I have helped people to put it back after someone made the mistake of removing it!
I would need engine serial numbers to help further. Each Generation and version has different issues.

 

[Frankec3]

@muc 1A316352 port, 1A316351 starboard

 

[muc]

First I should post that I'm not an expert on Axius. I was a MerCruiser master tech for a dealer that sold 98% Volvo boats. We only sold 2 Axius boats, one never had issues and the other one's problems were solved with a call to tech support. My only real experience is going to all the classes to maintain my master cert. So my information isn't up to date.
Normally the repair protocol on these is repair as needed and upgrade to the next Gen when necessary.
In researching your boat, many repairs and updates have been done under warranty, most of them seem to me to be more of a poor boat builder installation then Axius issues.
It appears to me --- and I'm not 100% sure of this --- that upgrading to Gen 2 Axius will require a pretty complete repower (engines, transoms, controls, wiring harnesses and gauges) basically everything but the drives. This seems to be due to the recent changes that have been made to the latest Gen 2 Axius system. So a dealer with better info may have a better way.
Removing Axius is something you can do --- it's a boat after all "anything is possible, it just costs money" --- but it isn't just installing a seastar steering system. I'm pretty sure you will need new engine ECMs, transom plate modifications, wiring harnesses and possibly new mechanical throttle and shift system. This could turn out to get very expensive and will more then likely destroy most of the boats resale value.

Axius can be a very good system and can add value to a boat.

My recommendation is to find a MerCruiser Master Tech and pay them to do an assessment of your boat and provide you with options, this shouldn't cost more then $2,000.00

 

[Frankec3]

First I should post that I'm not an expert on Axius. I was a MerCruiser master tech for a dealer that sold 98% Volvo boats. We only sold 2 Axius boats, one never had issues and the other one's problems were solved with a call to tech support. My only real experience is going to all the classes to maintain my master cert. So my information isn't up to date.
Normally the repair protocol on these is repair as needed and upgrade to the next Gen when necessary.
In researching your boat, many repairs and updates have been done under warranty, most of them seem to me to be more of a poor boat builder installation then Axius issues.
It appears to me --- and I'm not 100% sure of this --- that upgrading to Gen 2 Axius will require a pretty complete repower (engines, transoms, controls, wiring harnesses and gauges) basically everything but the drives. This seems to be due to the recent changes that have been made to the latest Gen 2 Axius system. So a dealer with better info may have a better way.
Removing Axius is something you can do --- it's a boat after all "anything is possible, it just costs money" --- but it isn't just installing a seastar steering system. I'm pretty sure you will need new engine ECMs, transom plate modifications, wiring harnesses and possibly new mechanical throttle and shift system. This could turn out to get very expensive and will more then likely destroy most of the boats resale value.

Axius can be a very good system and can add value to a boat.

My recommendation is to find a MerCruiser Master Tech and pay them to do an assessment of your boat and provide you with options, this shouldn't cost more then $2,000.00

@muc, i am not really concerned with resale value of the boat, i just want to feel safe while on the water. the boat turned so violently it threw everyone around on the boat. It is concerning to me that total loss of steering can happen at any time even while at higher speeds. i mean this is why with all these advances in technology for cars they still have hydraulic breaks. i had a pretty lengthy conversation with someone at Seastar and we figured out a setup and the cylinder will fit on the existing transom bracket. My concern is if i unplug the plug from the Axius cylinder will this cause the engines to go into a "limp Mode"? maybe because the system cant communicate the direction of the drives?

 

[alldodge]

Using your serial numbers I see you can still get the ECM. You currently have a 555PCM and can get a 555PCM which does not use Axis at 2500 each

https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31752/13884/45

 

[muc]

@muc, i am not really concerned with resale value of the boat, i just want to feel safe while on the water. the boat turned so violently it threw everyone around on the boat. It is concerning to me that total loss of steering can happen at any time even while at higher speeds. i mean this is why with all these advances in technology for cars they still have hydraulic breaks. i had a pretty lengthy conversation with someone at Seastar and we figured out a setup and the cylinder will fit on the existing transom bracket. My concern is if i unplug the plug from the Axius cylinder will this cause the engines to go into a "limp Mode"? maybe because the system cant communicate the direction of the drives?

I understand the need to feel safe driving the boat!
But I'm not sure if you're going about it the right way.
The Axius system must be serviced by trained people. Here is just one of the many warnings in the service manual for this system.

It is imperative to return electronic modules and consumer controls to their original locations after swapping them for testing purposes. Failure to return them to their original locations and performing the proper recalibration can result in incorrect operation and injury to the vessel's passengers.

What happened to you should have never happened (lost control with a violent turn) the system is designed to keep that from happening. My guess is that the boat operator ignored warnings or improper repairs have been done to the system. In school we go over all the checks and balances that are in the system to keep something like this from happening.

After this event, did you get a Mercury dealer to look at the cause? This is critical to do for safety reasons.
Even something as "simple" as replacing a seal on the cylinder is complicated. Bleeding this system after a repair like, this is 9 steps and requires a special orifice fitting part number 879172A19 be used during the process. Otherwise "injury may occur".
I'm sorry to say that this system requires a trained tech with access to the Mercury Marine CDS G3 computer system. Yes I know that sucks, but until we have "right to repair" as a law ---- it's just how the world works.

I have heard things like "I mean this is why with all these advances in technology for cars they still have hydraulic brakes" many times in the 50 years I've been a mechanic. Starting with electronic ignition, "what's wrong with points?" and fuel injection, "what's wrong with carbs?", Now it's fly by wire, "what's wrong with mechanical cables and shafts?". Well all these things came about due to safety, cost and consumer demand. The only reason most cars still have hydraulic brakes is because they are still safe enough and cost less. Note that most cars now have a electric motor on the caliper for the parking brake, they are cheaper and last longer then the mechanical cables they replaced. I'm hope I'm not coming across like a jerk (but I realize I probably am) it's just that this is my opinion formed from doing this for soo long and I deal with things mechanical better then humans.

I see that @alldodge has posted (while I have spent way to much time typing this) some PCM part numbers that might work if you still want to remove the Axius system. I will caution you to do some research before going this route. As near as I can tell, your HCU (helm control unit - the shift and throttle levers) communicates with the CCM (command control module) which then sends the command to the PCM, so you may lose throttle and shift because the software in the new PCM might not recognize the commands from the CCM.

I can't answer your original question "can I just install a seastar steering system and disconnect the Axius?" without seeing the G3 report and consulting with Mercury. You can look all over the internet, but I will caution you that you will need to find someone that's done it with basically the exact same boat you have. There are way to many variables between the different versions of Axius.

My best advise is to have this boat looked at by a trained professional and repaired so it's safe to drive -- and once repaired correctly it should be very safe, what happened to you requires more then 2 things to have gone wrong -- or sell the boat and buy something set up how you want it.
Trying to modify this boat probably won't end well.

 

[Frankec3]

I understand the need to feel safe driving the boat!
But I'm not sure if you're going about it the right way.
The Axius system must be serviced by trained people. Here is just one of the many warnings in the service manual for this system.

It is imperative to return electronic modules and consumer controls to their original locations after swapping them for testing purposes. Failure to return them to their original locations and performing the proper recalibration can result in incorrect operation and injury to the vessel's passengers.

What happened to you should have never happened (lost control with a violent turn) the system is designed to keep that from happening. My guess is that the boat operator ignored warnings or improper repairs have been done to the system. In school we go over all the checks and balances that are in the system to keep something like this from happening.

After this event, did you get a Mercury dealer to look at the cause? This is critical to do for safety reasons.
Even something as "simple" as replacing a seal on the cylinder is complicated. Bleeding this system after a repair like, this is 9 steps and requires a special orifice fitting part number 879172A19 be used during the process. Otherwise "injury may occur".
I'm sorry to say that this system requires a trained tech with access to the Mercury Marine CDS G3 computer system. Yes I know that sucks, but until we have "right to repair" as a law ---- it's just how the world works.

I have heard things like "I mean this is why with all these advances in technology for cars they still have hydraulic brakes" many times in the 50 years I've been a mechanic. Starting with electronic ignition, "what's wrong with points?" and fuel injection, "what's wrong with carbs?", Now it's fly by wire, "what's wrong with mechanical cables and shafts?". Well all these things came about due to safety, cost and consumer demand. The only reason most cars still have hydraulic brakes is because they are still safe enough and cost less. Note that most cars now have a electric motor on the caliper for the parking brake, they are cheaper and last longer then the mechanical cables they replaced. I'm hope I'm not coming across like a jerk (but I realize I probably am) it's just that this is my opinion formed from doing this for soo long and I deal with things mechanical better then humans.

I see that @alldodge has posted (while I have spent way to much time typing this) some PCM part numbers that might work if you still want to remove the Axius system. I will caution you to do some research before going this route. As near as I can tell, your HCU (helm control unit - the shift and throttle levers) communicates with the CCM (command control module) which then sends the command to the PCM, so you may lose throttle and shift because the software in the new PCM might not recognize the commands from the CCM.

I can't answer your original question "can I just install a seastar steering system and disconnect the Axius?" without seeing the G3 report and consulting with Mercury. You can look all over the internet, but I will caution you that you will need to find someone that's done it with basically the exact same boat you have. There are way to many variables between the different versions of Axius.

My best advise is to have this boat looked at by a trained professional and repaired so it's safe to drive -- and once repaired correctly it should be very safe, what happened to you requires more then 2 things to have gone wrong -- or sell the boat and buy something set up how you want it.
Trying to modify this boat probably won't end well.

@muc, After the event i asked my marina if they could look at it. they said they could, but are not familiar with the Axius system. i contacted other marinas and marine mechs who are "Mercury Repower centers" and realized none of them are familiar with this system and even though they are Mercury Repower Centers, they really don't do sterndrives mostly deal in outboards.
i do my boating in the Chesapeake Bay. i guess one more question i could ask is do you or does anyone know of a Mercury Technician in this area that is familiar with Axius? based on what you told me, if there has been a lot of warranty work on the boat and if pervious tech didn't return electronic modules and consumer controls to their original locations after swapping them for testing purposes (my speculation) could be an issue i don't feel comfortable letting someone not familiar plug in and mess around with it.
i have contacted Mercury and they were supposed to give me a contact to a tech or techs in my area familiar with axius and i have not heard back yet, this was 3 months ago.
so if you know anyone that would be great.
thanks for all your help with this.

 

[muc]

@muc, After the event i asked my marina if they could look at it. they said they could, but are not familiar with the Axius system. i contacted other marinas and marine mechs who are "Mercury Repower centers" and realized none of them are familiar with this system and even though they are Mercury Repower Centers, they really don't do sterndrives mostly deal in outboards.
i do my boating in the Chesapeake Bay. i guess one more question i could ask is do you or does anyone know of a Mercury Technician in this area that is familiar with Axius? based on what you told me, if there has been a lot of warranty work on the boat and if pervious tech didn't return electronic modules and consumer controls to their original locations after swapping them for testing purposes (my speculation) could be an issue i don't feel comfortable letting someone not familiar plug in and mess around with it.
i have contacted Mercury and they were supposed to give me a contact to a tech or techs in my area familiar with axius and i have not heard back yet, this was 3 months ago.
so if you know anyone that would be great.
thanks for all your help with this.

Your welcome, happy to help when I can.
Sorry but I don't have any recommendations on a tech in your area.
I don't know what number you called but this is the number to call.
The Consumer Support number is (920) 929-5040
I'm guessing that finding the right tech will be critical getting this problem resolved and allowing you to regain confidence in your boat.

There are 4 levels of MerCruiser techs
1. Untrained or starting training ---- no no no
2. Marine Systems Technician (MST), this tech has passed 7 classes with a grade of 80% (open book) or higher ---- not quite ready for what you need
3. MerCruiser Certified Technician, this tech has passed 8 more classes with 80% (open book) and now meets the prerequisites to take the advanced classes like Axius. ---- this tech might be able to help you, especially if they have passed the Axius classes.
4. MerCruiser Master Technician, this tech has been certified for at least 4 years, has taken all the advanced classes and after getting approval from the TAM (Technical Account Manager) is allowed to take a 100 question closed book test with a 90% grade. ---- I've worked with a few and attended the Merc schools with many more, all of them can handle this problem you have.

Call that number and make sure you go into detail about how scared you AND YOUR PASSENGERS got. This is a problem that should have never happened and Mercury and their lawyers should want to address this issue. Don't ask about removing Axius, their mind will go straight to "this person needs a different boat" just like my mind did.

The other option is to start calling dealers asking if they have a master tech or a certified tech who has attended Axius classes.

It's not just the swapping of modules and controls that I'm worried about. At one of the Axius classes I took we had a guy in our group (we break into 4 person groups for the lab portion) who dealt with Axius on a daily basis back at his shop and during down time he was showing us all the crazy things he could make happen by plugging the wrong harnesses into the right places. Pretty wild stuff.

This is why I recommended finding a well trained tech to do an assessment of your boat.

 

[silver_power]

If i was in your situation, i would be definately socked by my boat and maybe i would afraid to go back in after that... this is something that you definately have to work with yourself and decide what you will do.
Now, concerning axius, correct me if i am wrong but now, after you changed the solenoid you say, system works normally??
I can tell you for sure how is an Axius boat without Axius installed.......NOT GOOD and slow.....
You can make your boat work without Axius but you must see this as a downgrade project which will cost you a lot of money. Check if it is worth the money, time and all the job which will be done to a 2009 boat and give a shot.
If you decide it i will be happy to help you and possibly i will ask you price for some spare parts that after that they will be completelly useless to you.
I bought a used AXIUS boat without AXIUS and i made it AXIUS again......and i am very happy....

 

[vroom ZOOM]

Well, I will chime in here with my 2c.

The thing is, finding parts for gen 1 axius is stupid difficult (I tried, most parts are NLA). However, if parts are needed, I heard that you can install the newer style actuator and reprogram the TVM to slow the new actuator down to the gen 1 speed (will need G3 for this). You're going to need a dealer tech for this with G3. Also maybe Jaltest marine may be able to do this as well as a couple of other off brand tools, but I cant confirm this.

Anyways, either find out what is going on with axius, or you can go to option 2, which would be to just turn it into a plain DTS boat. You will retain your shifters, delete the joystick and change the helm to a regular one, swap the transom plates to standard ones, and swap the PCM to a DTS variety.