Bad Stator? Please read.....

[dan4081]

I have a 1983 85HP Force that is no longer charging.
Have been doing some troubleshooting and so far this is what I found.
Rectifier tests good. (Replaced last year with one from Radio Shack)
All grounds and connections cleaned and look good.
On to the stator test...and heres where there seems to be an issue.

The manual I have states that to test the stator you measure impedance between the two appropriate wires coming from the Stator.
From the manual it states that it should measure between .5-1.
Mine measures 1.6.

Thoughts on this? Am I due for a replacement stator? Or any other ideas?

Thanks

BTW, the engine starts right up....

 

[theoldwizard1]

What is the voltage at the battery at idle and at high idle (about 2000 rpm) ?

 

[dan4081]

What is the voltage at the battery at idle and at high idle (about 2000 rpm) ?

It reads the same....about 13 volts, no matter if the engine is running or not, and no matter what speed the engine is running.
Thanks

 

[Frank Acampora]

You MUST remove the two A/C wires from the rectifier to test impedance between them. Normally you would expect about 15-16 volts while the engine is running. However, normal battery voltage is about 13-14 volts. The engine has a dedicated ignition system which does NOT use the battery so the alternator only recharges the starting current withdrawn. Turn on all accessories and if the battery does not discharge or voltage drop, then the alternator and rectifier are working.

 

[dan4081]

You MUST remove the two A/C wires from the rectifier to test impedance between them. Normally you would expect about 15-16 volts while the engine is running. However, normal battery voltage is about 13-14 volts. The engine has a dedicated ignition system which does NOT use the battery so the alternator only recharges the starting current withdrawn. Turn on all accessories and if the battery does not discharge or voltage drop, then the alternator and rectifier are working.

Thanks Frank.

What had happened was, I had the boat out and the voltage guage in my dash started swinging wildly from about 8-16 volts. I limped back to the dock and brought the boat back home.
​In the past, the guage would read 13-14 volts with the engine at idle, and 15-16 volts at faster speeds. Since that incident, it now reads only the 12-13 or so volts of the battery, no matter what the speed.
I also have used a good multimeter to test this to rule out a bad dash guage.
I then checked all connections, and also tested the rectifier.
As I was trying to figure this out, I decided to test the impedance of the stator as outlined in the manual and found it fell out of spec. (I did in fact remove the wires from the rectifier before testing impedance between them.)

 

[dan4081]

Thanks Frank.

What had happened was, I had the boat out and the voltage guage in my dash started swinging wildly from about 8-16 volts. I limped back to the dock and brought the boat back home.
​In the past, the guage would read 13-14 volts with the engine at idle, and 15-16 volts at faster speeds. Since that incident, it now reads only the 12-13 or so volts of the battery, no matter what the speed.
I also have used a good multimeter to test this to rule out a bad dash guage.
I then checked all connections, and also tested the rectifier.
As I was trying to figure this out, I decided to test the impedance of the stator as outlined in the manual and found it fell out of spec. (I did in fact remove the wires from the rectifier before testing impedance between them.)

 

[Jiggz]

One sure way to find out if the stator is still good is to read the input AC voltage on the rectifier (which are the output wires of the stator). Around 2000 RPM or more, the AC voltage will be around 14~16 VAC. If you can read this ac voltage on the rectifier's input then the stator is still good. Now test the rectifier by reading its output voltage and it should be around 13~14 VDC and can be higher at higher RPM's. Note make sure you set the multimeter correctly either in AC or DC as indicated. You do not need to disconnect any wires unless you cannot read any AC voltages from the rectifier input wires, then you can disconnect one wire just to make sure a bad rectifier is not affecting your readings.

Note, since the battery is also connected to the rectifier's output, reading the rectifier output should be done diligently by watching the voltage reading while revving the motor. With increase in rpm there should also be increased in rectifier output reading and vice versa . If there's none then you are just reading the battery voltage and not the rectifier output.

 

[dan4081]

Thanks everyone for the input...I'll try to get to these tests after work today and report back.

 

[dan4081]

Wanted to quickly reply so everyone doesn't think I'm ignoring their suggestions.

I did go to my boat to do some testing...but Murphys Law kicked in...my motor that ALWAYS starts would not start. After trying for a while my brother noticed he didn't smell gas...we usually do after priming and cranking motor. We then looked at the gas in the tank (portable 6 gallon moellers) and noticed the gas smelled very weak. Poured some into a clear container and it was almost milky and barely had a gas smell.
Long story short...it seems the gas was bad...looks to have water in it. Its been sitting for quite some time in the portable tank. (and no...I didn't have my water separator installed)
So this week I have to tackle that issue first....hopefully fresh gas and some starting fluid will do the trick. Then I will test the stator.

 

[GoFastr]

What and where is this rectifier from RadioShack located? I've read others have purchased a $5 replacement part but am wondering if this is only for older Force motors? Mine is a 1999 40hp. Is this an option?

Looking forward to reading your solution or continued troubleshooting of your problem.

 

[Jiggz]

It will be item #30 on the diagram.

 

[dan4081]

Wanted to quickly reply so everyone doesn't think I'm ignoring their suggestions.

I did go to my boat to do some testing...but Murphys Law kicked in...my motor that ALWAYS starts would not start. After trying for a while my brother noticed he didn't smell gas...we usually do after priming and cranking motor. We then looked at the gas in the tank (portable 6 gallon moellers) and noticed the gas smelled very weak. Poured some into a clear container and it was almost milky and barely had a gas smell.
Long story short...it seems the gas was bad...looks to have water in it. Its been sitting for quite some time in the portable tank. (and no...I didn't have my water separator installed)
So this week I have to tackle that issue first....hopefully fresh gas and some starting fluid will do the trick. Then I will test the stator.

Just a quick update...hooked up a fresh tank of gas and used starting fluid to start motor.
It will start after spraying starting fluid in carbs...but will only run a few seconds and dies. This weekend I will pull the carbs and clean them and then try again.

THEN I will 'hopefully' be able to finally test the stator.

 

[Jiggz]

Since the motor starts when you spray in fuel, the carbs are probably OK and not faulty but instead,it could be the fuel delivery, fuel pump, leaking primer bulb, etc. You might want to install a clear fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carb inlet for troubleshooting purposes.

 

[dan4081]

Since the motor starts when you spray in fuel, the carbs are probably OK and not faulty but instead,it could be the fuel delivery, fuel pump, leaking primer bulb, etc. You might want to install a clear fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carb inlet for troubleshooting purposes.

Thanks for the heads up...I had seen your other posts suggesting this and went ahead and bought the Fram filter you had mentioned and will include it in my troubleshooting.

 

[dan4081]

Big updates today....Battery was run down from all the testing and sitting so brought it to Autozone and had it charged overnight and tested...all looked good after the charge.
My brother pulled the carbs and cleaned them and blew out all jets and orifices while the battery was gone. That, a charged battery and a fresh tank of gas and the motor starts right up and purrs nicely.
So far so good...
now time to test the charging system.
Checked the output of the stator at the rectifier and read 18-22 VAC depending on engine RPMs.
Then checked rectifier output and was only reading 12-13 VDC no matter the RPMs. Im guessing this means I was reading the battery voltage as Jiggz suggested may happen. Also put the meter directly on the battery and didn't see any change in voltage as I reved engine.
As I stated before, the rectifier 'tested' fine using the tests found on this forum, but I figure next step I will try another Radio shack rectifier since they are so cheap and I have a RS literally one block from where I have the boat. I also made sure connections at the battery are clean and tight.
Not really sure why Im not seeing charging at the battery at this point.

One other question...there is a circuit breaker on the engine. What is this for?
Thanks

 

[Jiggz]

The ckt breaker is after the rectifier which is designed to isolate the rectifier if it ever shorts out. There is another ckt bkr for the tilt and trim but that is totally a different story with your problem. Since you measured the output of the rectifier directly at its terminal and read the battery voltage, it means the ckt bkr is not tripped. And since the output voltage does not change with the rpm (but the input VAC voltage does) it indicates the rectifier is already bad. Yes, just replace the rectifier with the RS unit and you should be good to go. Let us know how it goes.

 

[dan4081]

Was able to do some more this morning, but of course nothing ever comes easy...

So I went to the Shack and bought a new rectifier. I went to the boat and put it on but decided before I start the engine on muffs and get the ground soaked I would throw my new LED taillights on the trailer. As I was running the wires through the trailer I disturbed a wasps nest that had been built in the tongue of the trailer...needless to say they were pissed and swarmed and I escaped with only a couple stings...

Now the rectifier. I started the engine and was reading 12.75VDC at idle right at the rectifier output. Cranked the engine a little to about 2000 RPM and it went up to 13 Volts.
I believe I am charging at this point, but I also wonder if part of the numbers I have been getting may be due to the cheap meter I am using. Its one of the ones you get for free from Harbor Freight with the coupons in the Sunday paper. So I'm not to sure how accurate it really is.

Thanks for all the help...

BTW, the new rectifier I bought is different from the last one even though they are the same part number from Radio Shack. (276-1185) The new one is much thicker...maybe half an inch thick where the old one was about 1/4 inch. Wonder if they were re-designed?

 

[Jiggz]

Yup, you are charging and should be good to go!

 

[GoFastr]

How did you install the RS part? Got a pic? I looked it up and it looks a little chintzy compared to the original.

 

[dan4081]

How did you install the RS part? Got a pic? I looked it up and it looks a little chintzy compared to the original.

No pic but here are the instructions pnwboat posted on here in the past:
~~
Radio Shack P/N 276-1185 $4.49 +tax. 50volts @ 25amps. There should be two terminals that are labeled with this symbol ~. This is where the Green/Yellow wires are attached. One terminal labeled either with the plus + symbol or the sharp corner is cut off. This is where the Red wire is attached. One terminal labeled with a minus symbol -, this terminal is connected to the engine block or ground.