Bad trim motor and now relays not clicking anymore...help!

[USA_boater]

2004 Four Winns H180 w/ VP 4.3GL...trim motor was intermittently working last year when you hit the switch on the throttle stick. This year, noting but relays click noise when you hit the switch. Soooo I tired to do my own redneck trouble shooting and may have made it worse.

- first tried swapping the relays with some "like" relays of an '04 Jeep that fit the plugs. They too clicked so I assumed that meant the motor itself was the culprit.

- then tried beating on trim motor housing with mallet, then hammer when mallet didn't work. Figured it was like an automotive starter when it has a dead spot on the brushes. But ultimately I probably did more damage because when I took out the old motor the magnets were in pieces and motor couldn't turn at all.

- took old motor off an ordered a new one that I have not received yet. But now after having the wife fit the trim switch on the throttle so many times while I was doing the trouble shooting, neither set of relays I have click anymore and the fuse is good!

I went ahead and ordered 2 new proper relays but haven't tried them yet. But SHOULD THE RELAYS CLICK IF INSTALLED WITHOUT THE MOTOR BEING INSTALLED TOO?

I figure I either have a bad trim switch now at the throttle stick, OR I burned up some wires or something?

The plan is to hookup the new motor and old relays first, then try the new relays and if neither of those work, then I need advice on what else it could be besides the trim switch itself which would be my fault and a new issue! Thanks guys!

PS, how can I see a list of my past threads if I didn't subscribe to them? I think I had a thread from last year on the trim when it first acted up but I couldn't locate it.

 

[TyeeMan]

Does your battery still have charge after all this testing?

I would think that relays should click whether or not the motor is present, I mean the relays don't know if the motor is there or not.
Is the actual pump mechanism that the motor connects to free? As in not seized up?

You should probably verify that the switch on the throttle lever is actually good as well. And verify there are no broken wires.

 

[cptbill]

not sure 04 jeep relays are ok. that said I used to keep 4 of those relays in stock in may boat tool kit (they fit the fuel pump to) the connectors would corrode and make the trim motor work intermittently, anyway make sure the connectors inside the plug aren't corroded ,in 40 years of boating none of the boats I've had with I/Os have ever had a trim motor go bad even in salt water relays yes connectors yes also had a wire break at the connector at the switch itself that's not to say a motor won't go bad. Easiest way to test the motor is with to wires from the batt. one to each side of the two wires that go straight to the motor itself connect 1 wire then touch the other one to the other connector the motor will spin one way, reverse the wire it goes the other way. It's best to make a test connector so you don't touch the wires together and short things and only do it if your comfortable testing that way

 

[Starcraft5834]

have u determined if your trim pump motor is the problem or the selinoid switches? take some wire connect to your battery then touch the switches, they are usually blue and green, blue (sky) for "UP" and Green (grass) for "DOWN. if your trim motor is working properly it should send the motor up and down on command, you will know then that your switches are faulty or a short someplace, if not you know your motor is suspect and should be replaced

 

[USA_boater]

Well the motor is for sure bad now as mentioned because the magnets were in pieces when I opened it up. The symptoms last years were sometimes when you hit the trim switch, the relays would click but the motor would not function. Then if you hit the switch multiple times, sometimes the trim would then start working again. This is the same thing an automotive starter does when they are going bad so I assumed I had a bad motor. Whether or not that was the case, the fact the magnets are broken now guarantees the motor is bad.

The pump isn't seized because I was able to use a power drill to operate the trim manually with the motor removed.
I will install the new motor when it comes and then try the new relays as well and report back for more help as soon as I receive the motor. Thanks guys!

PS, no the battery not dead...but the old motor sure got hot with all that testing!

 

[Starcraft5834]

relay switches are cheap,, the motor not so much,, good luck.. every time i had a problem with my olf A1 trim was switch problems.... glad i sold my old cuddy and bought a new toon and new outboard merc

 

[cptbill]

At least you Know now, Hope you can actually get it out easy enough, don't be afraid to look at used motors or new old stock it will sure save on the repair cost

 

[USA_boater]

Motor was easy to take out, and replacement was like 63 bucks (if it is in fact the correct one that shows up). Next step is to order new control switch if the new motor/relays don't work.

 

[USA_boater]

UPDATE:

Replacement motor was online aftermarket made in Taiwan and did not fit even though it was supposed to be for the later model boats w/ SX drive. ALL pictures of the aftermarket motors for this boat online show the same design and it is wrong so I'm not sure where I'd get a new motor w/out having to buy the entire pump assembly with the motor already mounted to it. After wasting HOURS of time trying to make the new motor work, it grind-ed metal shavings down into my pump, and I figured out the shaft is just a wee bit short and the nose cone a wee bit long vs the factory motor so I don't see how this could be for the later Volvo's as listed (but the bolts holes were the correct width apart and the correct thread/size bolts so I know it wasn't the early design replacement motor which uses different bolts and width mounting holes according to the internet).

The reason I had no power back to the motor turned out to be the 50A breaker on the starboard side of the motor needed to be reset. I guess all that testing caused it to trigger. SO the new trim switch & 2 new relays I bought are going into my parts bin in case I ever need them (actually I installed the new relays and put the old good ones in the bin). No sense sending them all back and then being stuck someday without spares...I doubt the throttle trim switch ever goes bad but it was 26 bux so I saved it just in case as I think there is a re-stocking fee anyway. (what would you guys have done?)

For the motor, I took apart the old motor and removed the two large broken pieces of magnet (about 1/4 of each magnet broke off on each side of the case so I have about 70% of the magnets left inside the case). I took a brass brush and cleaned up what corrosion I saw, lubed the shaft a bit and threw it back in and WAAALAHHH! The trim works like a charm again despite the missing 30% of the magnetic field & magnets. I have been told all this will do is make the motor weaker but as long as it will operate the pump it doesn't matter??? The magnets broke almost uniformly so they are still symmetrical so I'm hoping I'm good for awhile.

When the new/wrong motor grind-ed against the pump bit, I wiped up what shavings/grease mixture was sitting down in the pump bit hole as best I could but undoubtedly some of the fine powder got into the tank/system. I am hoping not enough to make the seals start leaking???

Anyway, just wanted to report back...if I had only known then what I know now I could have saved the ~120 bux or so and not beaten the magnets loose to begin with! I sent the motor back hoping for a refund since it was wrong but I'm stuck with the other new parts I didn't really need. I just hope this motor lasts despite the magnets so I don't have to mess with this again for awhile! I hope this post helps someone else...it was a post from here that turned me onto checking the breaker switch.