Batteries what kind?

profish00

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
91
I am going to replace my batteries on my 1820 Robalo w/150 merc and I would like to know the best combination weather it be 2 starting or 2 deep cycle I believe the configuration I have now is 2 starting. I usualy run the 700gpm livewell all the time i"m in the boat as well as a radio and GPS I also have been using both batteries at the same time by the selecter switch.<br /><br />My ? is what are your thaughts!
 

ZmOz

Captain
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
3,949
Re: Batteries what kind?

I think 1 starting and 1 deep cycle would be good for you. Starting batteries are NOT meant to run electronics all day long, and deep cycle batteries are NOT meant to start your engine. You can get some of the "compromise" deep cycle/starting batteries, but those don't do either of those things as well as a regular battery would.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Batteries what kind?

Check the FAQ's, there is an excellent article on batteries in there that is outstanding. :)
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Batteries what kind?

You certainly don't want to run a mixed combination of starting and deep cycle without isolating them from each other. Nor would you want anything except identical batteries from the same batch tied together in parallel whether for charging or using, regardless of type. If you have room and easy access I'd recommend a pair of flooded cell true deep cycle batteries. Room because it will require a bit larger deep cycle to get the cranking amps, and easy access to keep distilled water in them. Properly cared for they are significantly more durable and long lasting than any cranking battery or "marine cranking/deep cycle" combo battery, and less expensive than the newer sealed AGM spiral cell type batteries. Personally, I'd just alternate between batteries to keep both exercised and charged, though I don't have a livewell pump to keep going. Just don't switch between them with the engine running. Make sure you have figured out what your max load is and size the batteries accordingly.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Batteries what kind?

I favor the dual purpose batteries. They have the deep cycle capability as well as ability to deliver high current for starting.
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: Batteries what kind?

Bearcat gave you some good advice. Let me add to it.<br /><br />You've only got a load of 6 amp hours in your whole boat. Get yourself a pair of group 27 combined Starting/Deep Cycle batterys. Get them at Wal Mart, the house brand. Group 27 is just a designation that defines the size of the case and the placement of the terminals, it does not denote storage capacity. However, in general batterys of that size have a capacity of 100 amp hours. With your usage, including running the bait well continously, you could easily run it all for 4 hours and only have discharged your battersy a little over 20%. That would still leave plenty to restart your engine.<br /><br />So with that it starts to make sense to have two idential batterys and just use a battery switch to pick which one is in use. One thing though NEVER RUN YOUR BOAT WITH THE BATTERY SWITCH IN THE BOTH POSITION. By using either battery 1 or battery 2 but not both you always hold one in reserve for engine starting in the event that you have trouble. Sometimes engines quit outputting a charge and sometimes plates break loose inside of batterys and short them out internally. Lots of things can happen that leave you quite unexpectedly with a dead battery. If the boat is properly wired, and you weren't running it in BOTH, you still have backup.<br /><br />I have a wireing diagram made up for this sort of wireing and I'll come back on edit and post it if I can find it.<br /><br />Thom
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Batteries what kind?

man, i asked the same question recently(feel free to search for it). the funny thing, you get different responses from different people. it's like there is no right answer. i even printed out all the responses to my question, passed it around to my boating friends, and got different responses from each of them! i hate this topic.<br /><br />i asked previously about the dual purpose batteries, but got no repsonse. jb- you like them? are you not compromising?<br /><br />i think i plan to buy two of the same batteries- either starting or dual purpose. i'll start with both on, run with both on. when i get somewhere and have the engine off, i'll switch to battery 1. i'll go back to both prior to running again. seems simple to me. if i lose 6 months or a year off the lives of the batteries, not a big deal. better than rewiring and adding switches and other gadgets just for my crappy 20' center.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Batteries what kind?

I think this is a defnitive article about the subject which comes from West Marine. It is the appraoch I use.<br /><br />
combiner.jpg
<br /><br />ntroduction <br />"Any boat that relies on its engine(s) for propulsion and travels more than a short distance from shore should have two independent batteries capable of starting the engine(s)." That kind of platitude is so darned obvious, you probably wonder why we'd waste your time with it. But the fact is, the statement is insufficient and misleading. This West Advisor will try to explain why. <br /><br />Due to the scarcity of tow trucks at sea, boaters have to be more self-sufficient than their land-bound counterparts in RVs and automobiles. Judging from the statistics we see on boat breakdowns, the two most frequent requests for assistance are because, 1) "I'm out of gas!", and 2) "I can't crank my engine. " We'd also venture to guess that the reason most boaters can't crank their engines is because their batteries have been run down by too much use and too little charging, as opposed to starter motor failure or some other malady.<br /><br />Assuming the boat is equipped with two adequate batteries, why would they both end up dead at the same time? There are at least three probable causes:<br /><br />Poor battery charging by the engine. This may be masked by near-continual battery charging, via shore power, when the boat is not in use. <br /><br />Inadequate battery capacity, forcing the boater to use both batteries simultaneously (switch on the BOTH position) to run DC loads. <br /><br />Lack of true isolation of the engine starting bank and the house bank, resulting in unintentional simultaneous discharge. <br /><br />The latter reason is the least understood by boaters, and it's due to a simple myth: because my boat has a big red OFF-1-BOTH-2 battery switch, it therefore has isolation between its battery banks. To that, we say:<br /><br />Nonsense!<br />Most single-engine boats produced in the last thirty years are supplied with two nearly identical (and under-sized) marine batteries. Generally of the Group 27 designation, both batteries could be used interchangeably for starting and house loads. Prior to starting the engine, the operator would turn the battery switch to the BOTH position so that he or she had the full cranking power of the batteries. Once the engine started, the operator would leave the switch in the BOTH position while powering to the day's destination so that both batteries were charged. Once a sailboat began sailing sans engine, or a powerboat dropped the hook, the operator would (in theory) turn the battery switch to the 1 or 2 position, so that the other battery would be reserved for starting. When it was time to crank the engine again, the battery switch would be turned to BOTH, or possibly to the reserved battery, and the engine would be started. <br /><br />The problem, of course, is that this requires a lot of thought on the part of the operator, who is trying to relax in the first place. The inevitable result is that at some point, the boater accidentally leaves the battery switch in the BOTH position, resulting in two very dead batteries.<br /><br />We also take issue with using two identical batteries since boats have two distinct types of loads: long duration, low amperage loads when the engine (charging source) isn't running, and high amperage, short duration loads while starting. Using a pair of deep-cycle or dual-purpose batteries, or worse yet, starting batteries, for this application is inefficient.<br /><br />What's the solution?<br />We strongly recommend that you select and wire your batteries differently from the way the factory wired them. Use a stout starting battery to crank your engine, based on your engine's cranking requirements. Use a larger house battery with triple the capacity of your daily DC requirements. Now this is where it gets complicated: we DON'T recommend the use of a traditional OFF-1-BOTH-2 battery switch. Instead, consider using three OFF-ON battery switches as follows: one switch to connect your starting battery to your starter circuit; one switch to connect your house battery to your boat's distribution panel; and one switch to parallel your battery systems if either battery fails. <br /><br />With this switch set-up, you simply turn your engine and house switches to the ON position whenever you are onboard, whether anchored, starting your engine, or sailing. The battery parallel switch remains OFF unless there is a complete failure of either battery bank or you have run your starting battery down trying to crank a reluctant engine. When your engine is off, the starting battery is safely isolated from the house loads. It cannot be discharged, even if you leave your stereo on all night, listening to Jimmy Buffett and blending margaritas. <br /><br />How do I charge both banks simultaneously?<br />By isolating starting and house banks, you face a challenge trying to charge them from a single source like single-output chargers or alternators. If you violate the "separation" of the two banks, you face the probability of two dead batteries due to "operator brain-fade". That's why we are great believers in the West Marine Battery Combiner and Heart Pathmaker, Balmar Dual Output Alternators, and to a lesser degree, battery isolators. These products sense the voltage of the battery banks and connect the batteries together whenever one battery's voltage is elevated. Both banks charge simultaneously and remain combined until the voltage drops, whereupon they are disconnected from one another. It's much like having a very attentive engineer flip your battery parallel switch on and off at exactly the right moment. The result is maximum charging performance for two banks, and complete isolation of the two banks to ensure that you can start your engine. <br /><br />Do I have to scrap my present switch?<br />While you don't have to, we strongly recommend the use of simple-to-understand OFF-ON switches. Shoot, even your brother-in-law can probably figure out how to operate an OFF-ON switch, but might be completely baffled by a OFF-1-BOTH-2 switch. Alternatively, you can use your current battery switch, plus a second OFF-ON switch, but we think it becomes complicated to understand what each switch combination accomplishes. As an added benefit, the fact that the battery switches are seldom, if ever, operated while underway greatly reduces the chances of damaging your alternator by accidentally opening its output circuit.
 

profish00

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jul 18, 2003
Messages
91
Re: Batteries what kind?

wow!!! :eek: thats alot to think about.....Thanks for all the info!
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Batteries what kind?

another opinion. i'll admit the article gives a lot of good info, but it also sounds like it's written for a 36' sportfisher (not my 20' center) and also to sell west marine products. still frustrated and not sure what i'll do. at least i have a few months to decide.
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Batteries what kind?

Mattttt25 – there IS a right answer if you consider the battery’s design. Manf don’t assume the additional cost of making different types of batteries if they do not have significantly different applications.<br /><br />JB – Dual-purpose batteries are designed to go ‘deeper’ than a starting battery but not as deep or for as many ‘cycles’ as a true deep cycle battery, and are not as cost efficient for deep cycle applications. They are intended for single bank applications where some milder deep cycling is to be expected, such as starting and then supplying pwr to a VHF and/or fishfinder.<br /><br />Bearcat – I think of the AGM batteries as an overpriced, low maintenance solution for snooty yachters that can’t place their own location on a paper chart. Oh, how I want to be one of these when I grow up. :)
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Batteries what kind?

mattttt25 - there is a significant difference between deep cycle batteries and starting batteries. If you search here you will find lots of detailed explinations as we have had these discussions manuy times. <br /><br />You can always use a simple 1-2-both switch but having the right batteries is critical. If you deeply discharge a starting battery it become permanently damaged. Deep cycles are made to take those conditions but are not great a producing high amounts of surrent for short periods like starting batteries. The physical characteristic of the plates inside the battery are different.<br /><br />No matter how you decide to go don't permanently parallel wire the two together. You risk discharging both due to prolonged camping and/or a bad battery discharging into a good one.<br /><br />Combiners or isolators simply make the system simpler and closer to fool proof. Boat size isn't really an issue IMHO.
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Batteries what kind?

I run a pair of dual purpose deep cycles in both boats... My needs are quite similar too our freind Profish's in most respects.. <br /><br /> I run the livewell, the depthfinder, and all running and cockpit lights (i fish at night most of the time).. No complaints.<br /><br />
I think of the AGM batteries as an overpriced, low maintenance solution for snooty yachters that can’t place their own location on a paper chart. Oh, how I want to be one of these when I grow up.
Me too! LMAO @ 18Rabbit.. :D
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Batteries what kind?

snapperbait - I've been curious about the duals in real use. Have you had a situation where you have had to crank a lot and/or have deeply disharged them and if so, how did they hold up?
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: Batteries what kind?

i don't doubt your info, fellas. you know more about the subject than i do. it's just frustrating trying to decide which way to go. snapper says he uses dual purpose, so i may go that way for ease- all i need is two new batteries. if they last two seasons, i'm happy. i don't have a problem remembering to switch, and if i forget, my problem. thanks again and keep the info flowing...
 
Top