Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

ASI Imperial

Seaman
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
60
Hello Friends,<br /><br />Have been reading posts about two battery set ups and no one says anything about using a battery isolator. Should I use one to keep both batteries equally charged??<br /><br />Thanks <br /><br />Brian-ASI
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

No.
 

Boatin Bob

Lieutenant Commander
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Sep 24, 2001
Messages
1,858
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

I wouldn't just say "NO", depends on your setup, kind of batteries (are they the same) what do you use them for, 1 for starting, 1 for house? I don't see anything wrong with an isolator in some situations. There are thousands of boats out there with them.
 

ASI Imperial

Seaman
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
60
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

Just using 1 for starting and one for house. The batteries are not a matched pair but are new. Will I have a problem with battery drain or over charging if i dont use and isolator? Thanks<br /><br />Brian_ASI
 

ThomWV

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 19, 2003
Messages
701
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

No.
 

Boatist

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Apr 22, 2002
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Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

ASI<br />I been useing a isolator on my boat for my two batteries for 24 years with out a problem. It is my perfered charging mode. I have a I/O with a 35 amp alternator. My batteries last a average of 7 years and have never had one that did not last 6 years. One battery normal car starting battery group 24. Second battery is a deep cycle group 24 used to run all electronic not needed to run the boat. I also run a charge line from a plug on the front of my boat to my isolator so I can charge batteries in the off season with out getting in the boat to hook up a charger. Most important thing with batteries is never discharge more than 50 percent, and never wait to charge a discharged batteries. Charge asap on the boat or at home but as soon as you can. Also do not over charge even with a non regulated trickle charger. Check the water level twice a year if battery has caps.<br /><br />However there are times it is not a good idea.<br /><br />Do not do it if you have two different types batteries, One Lead Acid, One Gelcell. They each require different charging voltages.<br /><br />Do not do it if you have a small alternator on a outboard say 6 amps and a lead acid starting battery and a big lead acid trolling motor battery. If both batteries are lead acid and you have a 20 amp alternator or more I still like a battery isolator.<br /><br />Some will say a battery combiner is better and it may be as no voltage drop when charging but with as trouble free as my isolator has been from 1980 till now I like the isolator. So Simple<br /><br />I would never use a battery switch to charge both batteries, just seen so many blown alternators from turning the switch thru off or just turning with the motor running.<br /><br />Even if your switch has a ALTERNATOR FIELD DISCONNECT it must be wired correctly to prevent alternator failure when turn thru off. If it not wired correctly will not disconnect alternator field winding and you will blow all the diodes.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

From an electrical engineer, there are possible problems associated with dual batteries.<br /><br />With multiple batteries, I always recommend matched set, or some sort of isolation. If you are using one starting battery, and one deep-cycle battery, you could have problems.<br /><br />If batteries are not isolated, they are always connected in parallel (otherwise, you would have 24 volts). This means they each drain the same amount. If you have one starting and one deep-cycle, they are not designed to drain the same amount. One battery is designed for quick high-amperage loads, the other is designed for sustained low-amperage loads. The starting battery usually drops voltage first, and now you have one battery with less voltage than another battery. When you connect two batteries of differing voltages, you can easily develop problems. Not only that, you severely affect the performance of the deep-cyle battery.<br /><br />The short version is, I advise you to either buy a matched set of batteries, from the same manufacturer and same manufacturing date, or isolate the batteries.<br /><br />If anybody wants more info on WHY, and possible problems, just let me know.
 

cuzner

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
771
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

I have this fear of being in the middle of a lake,or even in a transient slip after an overniter and having dead bateries. I use one to ensure I have a fresh battery to start the engine.<br /><br /><br /> Jim
 

seamegr

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Messages
82
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

wilkin250r, that is probably the shortest and best explanation I have seen. It should go in FAQ somewhere.<br /><br />Greg
 

ASI Imperial

Seaman
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
60
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

Sorry for the delay for a response from me my grand father passed away this week.<br /><br />So Isolationn would be the best thing i can do if the batteries are not a matched set?<br /><br />Thanks Alot<br /><br />Brian-ASI
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.<br /><br />Isolation is always safe.<br /><br />I'll go into a little more detail, and you can make up your own mind.<br /><br />As I posted above, if you hook to batteries together in parallel without isolation, you force the batteries to drain exactly the same. Well, starting batteries and deep-cycle batteries are not designed to drain the same.<br /><br />Deep cycle batteries have more amp-hours (which means they actually have more energy storage), but this design also gives them higher internal resistance than starting batteries. This is why starting batteries have higher CCA, because of the lower internal resistance.<br /><br />So, the lower internal resistance of the starting battery will actually make it supply slightly MORE energy when the two batteries are connected in parallel. It has less energy storage, and is actually supplying slightly more energy. As a result, it will drop voltage faster than the deep-cycle battery.<br /><br />So the question becomes, what happens when one battery drops voltage? Lets pretend it's a fairly large difference, like 4 volts. The internal resistance of the batteries is very low, just a few milli-ohms. Let's say it's 10 milli-ohms, even though I think that number is probably high. By ohms law, current equals voltage divided by resistance. When you have the two batteries connected in parallel, you have a closed loop, a complete circuit. 4 volts divided by .010 ohms equals 400 AMPS! By hooking two batteries of different voltages together in parallel, you can develop HUGE loop currents.<br /><br />With a difference of 4 volts, the deep cycle battery is pumping 400 amps into the starting battery. One, this could cause damage to both batteries, and two, this severely affects the efficiency of the deep-cycle battery. Now, granted you are not likely to develop 4 volts of difference if the batteries are always connected. But then, look at what is happening. The deep-cycle battery is charging the starting battery. If half of your energy from your deep-cycle battery is used to charge your starting battery, then your deep-cycle isn't going to last very long.<br /><br />As well, there are other dangerous "times" with this scenario, even when both batteries are fully charged. Starting your motor usually requires large currents, and current flowing through a resistance creates a voltage drop. Because of the difference in the internal resistance of the two different batteries, they develop a voltage difference during large power drains (such as starting). This again can create large loop currents.<br /><br />Now, the starting and deep-cycle battery is the extreme case because they are radically different. But think about it, each and every battery is slightly different. They have different capacities and internal resistances. Even between two batteries of the same size and type from the same manufacturer, but one battery is older than the other, because internal resistance increases with age. If both batteries were exactly (and I mean exactly) the same, then there would be no danger at all. The risk comes from the difference between the batteries. The greater the difference, the greater the risk.<br /><br />With an isolator, yes you lose some efficiency across the isolator, but you have eliminated all risk.
 

ASI Imperial

Seaman
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
60
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

That is the best post I have ever read! I am using two different batteries and are both starting batteries. One will be used for the primary starting and the other for accessories I.E Radio,fish finder, courtesy lights, running lights & anchor light,bilge,blowerthats it. I do have the battery switch with the 1,2-all this will have to be incorporated with the isolator correct? Is it ok to use two starting batteries? Like explained above one for start and one for accessory?<br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to help It is greatly appreciated.<br /><br />Brian-ASI
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

I'll confess, I'm more of a "theoretical" kind of guy, and I'm not intimately familiar with marine electronics. As such, I'm not sure how the "battery switch" works. Perhaps someone can elighten me?<br /><br />If it is a true switch, connecting only one battery at a time, then that in itself will isolate the batteries, and no need for an additional isolator. An isolator is used when you want BOTH batteries to charge at the same time, but not allow one battery to charge into the other.<br /><br />Most often with this situation you would have all your electronics hooked to one battery, and the other battery is strictly for starting. If your electronics drain the battery, your starting battery is still fresh and fully charged, allowing you to start your motor and get home. But your charging system on your motor will charge BOTH batteries.<br /><br />Again, I'm not sure how the battery switch works. If it only connects one battery at a time, then there is no need for an isolator. Although, if it is a true switch, you also only charge one battery at a time rather than charging BOTH batteries.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

Let me clarify this one issue that just cropped up, I should have mentioned this earlier.<br /><br />If you connect both of your batteries in parallel to the SAME device (like a trolling motor) then an isolator isn't going to do any good. By connecting them to the same device, you are bypassing the isolator completely by providing another path for electricity. Although, I cannot see why you would ever connect two batteries in parallel to the same device.<br /><br />The only time an isolator would help you is if you have two batteries hooked to SEPARATE devices. Like one starting battery for your primary motor, and an additional battery to run all the electronics on your boat, or a trolling motor. That way, if your trolling motor or electronics completely drain one battery, you can still get home because your starting battery is still fully charged.<br /><br />If your primary motor is charging both batteries, without an isolator, but they are connected to separate devices, they are still automatically connected in parallel. As such, any device will drain BOTH batteries, and likewise, one battery can drain into the other. An isolator would prevent this.<br /><br />Again, if you connect them in parallel to the same device, you are bypassing the isolator completely.
 

Keith Buchanan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 10, 2004
Messages
221
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

Yes! then at least you have cranking amps at your will and should you have a flat house battery, in an emergency you can switch back to your cranking battery to power your VHF should the need be.
 

wgander

Cadet
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
28
Re: Battery Isolator...Should I use one in my two battery set up???

When I added a second battery to my runabout (because I didn't want to be caught with a dead battery when afloat when I only had one battery), I was all set to use an isolator. When I went to West Marine for a battery switch and wire, they recommended using a combiner instead of an isolator. So I did, and I've been happy. I periodically switch between using battery 1 or battery 2 (when everything's turned off - I haven't wired in my ZapStop yet). The day that one of the batteries fails to start the engine, I should be able to select the other one to get home.
 
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