Best and worse manufacturers???

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

All of them can be good or junk...depends on how they were cared for.
The Cobalts are a very well made boat.

I like my old ChrisCraft too...

I agree, ChrisCraft's are nice boats. The older you go with the nicer they get in my opinion. Dont get me wrong, the newer ones are fine boats. I'm in love with the old wooden ChrisCrafts so I'm biased.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

I dont agree JD. They have Sea Ray listed as a high quality boat, its not the case at all. Read this article: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/searay_balsa_core_bottoms.htm
Like it was pointed out by some, the previous care/maintenance is the only thing important on a used boat. Some of the "nice" things that higher end manufactures put in their boats is stainless steel instead of plastic hardware. It is welcome but it doesn't really say anything about the hull construction.
Going just by name, Boston Whaler and Cobalt are on my top list. Bayliner and Tahoe at the bottom.

its a well know fact that david pascoe has a enormous dislike-hate for sea ray.
he goes out of his way to tear them down. am surprised you sight his dislike of sea ray and dont mention hattress for your choice of best boats


i think in this case i would trust JD powers to be more objective.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

it is all a matter of opinion, yours, mine, and the writer, reviewing the boat, and how much he is getting paid. sorry, of course a writer never took any compensation for a good review.

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

it is all a matter of opinion, yours, mine, and the writer, reviewing the boat, and how much he is getting paid. sorry, of course a writer never took any compensation for a good review.

may be you hit the nail on the head here tash. i have always wondered why the deep seated dislike DP has for SR.
perhaps they refused to pay him at one time or another?

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

its a well know fact that david pascoe has a enormous dislike-hate for sea ray.
he goes out of his way to tear them down. am surprised you sight his dislike of sea ray and dont mention hattress for your choice of best boats


i think in this case i would trust JD powers to be more objective.

Its true, its just an opinion. The reason I agree with him is because I work with fiberglass professionally and found the same thing he has with SeaRays. There is plenty of other manufactures that use that cheap method of construction but, I wouldn't know all of them. At my house right now I have a whaler, bayliner and a glasstron. I do have a preference for Whalers and old ChrisCrafts but I like them all once I've ripped out all the coring crap.

 

[htv]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

I dont agree JD. They have Sea Ray listed as a high quality boat, its not the case at all. Read this article: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/searay_balsa_core_bottoms.htm
Like it was pointed out by some, the previous care/maintenance is the only thing important on a used boat. Some of the "nice" things that higher end manufactures put in their boats is stainless steel instead of plastic hardware. It is welcome but it doesn't really say anything about the hull construction.
Going just by name, Boston Whaler and Cobalt are on my top list. Bayliner and Tahoe at the bottom.

Opinion and article published in 2002. Can you find any evidence of this problem on recent models?

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

Its true, its just an opinion. The reason I agree with him is because I work with fiberglass professionally and found the same thing he has with SeaRays. There is plenty of other manufactures that use that cheap method of construction but, I wouldn't know all of them. At my house right now I have a whaler, bayliner and a glasstron. I do have a preference for Whalers and old ChrisCrafts but I like them all once I've ripped out all the coring crap.

i'm sure as stated sea ray has had problems. on this we can both agree.
my problem is david pascoe's lack of objectivity when it comes to sea ray products. for what ever reason he seems to have and carry out a personal vendetta towards them.
to my mind this taints the well respected marine surveyor title others have given him.
this comes after reading much of his material.

 

[Philster]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

That guy at Yacht Survey likes only a few boats. One tough guy to please, but makes many valid points.

He tends to focus on:

> Integrity at the junction of hull/deck (he does not like screws or anyone that uses them here). So many do.

> Transom design and ability to keep out the water hitting and sloshing at the transom.

> Accessibility to the bilge. He does not like boxed off areas and areas that can't be repaired/inspected.

> Function over form: He prefers areas that have more utility than style, and tends to loathe curved surfaces that prevent add-ons, like GPS, from being installed conveniently.

> Non-draining lockers and storage: He does not like these at all

> Center consoles that have the console simply screwed into the deck.

> He goes on and on about how boats will survive his (possibly drunken) night-fishing adventures off the FLA keys where rogue waves hit the transom.

He makes MANY good points. He ticks off a number of people who love Sea Rays and Boston Whalers. He thinks Whalers need all that foam because they have bad designs that take on water.

He nearly married and had some half boat, half human children with a Contender Center Console Boat that he loved.

http://www.contenderfishingboats.com/

.

 

[Bronc Rider]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

i'm sure as stated sea ray has had problems. on this we can both agree.
my problem is david pascoe's lack of objectivity when it comes to sea ray products. for what ever reason he seems to have and carry out a personal vendetta towards them.
to my mind this taints the well respected marine surveyor title others have given him.
this comes after reading much of his material.

Yeah, he does seem to really dislike SeaRays. The reason its wrong for him to go almost strictly against them is because others use that system as well. What I noticed on them was that they seemed to use more of that putty stuff than some other brands do.
To me a boat should be a simple tub made of FRP. All that coring stuff just seems like it would be harder to work with. The only reason to use it is to save money on good materials. I just dont like how some people give their opinion on quality with no knowledge at all as to how hulls are made. I dont think I'm more qualified than anybody here but, at least I know how FRP should end up.

 

[xxxflhrci]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

Bryant is my choice for "best".

http://www.bryantboats.com/

 

[GeoHawk]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

He nearly married and had some half boat, half human children with a Contender Center Console Boat that he loved.

ROFLMAO....I just about choked on my drink reading that line.

+1 on Cobalt being one of the best.

 

[Philster]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

Cobalt is up there, and the price will always reflect that. They don't skimp.

As for engines, premium brands tend to come with High Output version of similar engines, or bigger displacements, and they tend to use high-end exhaust systems. If they invest in hull design, a good hull that planes faster will make equal engines very unequal in terms of feel, feedback and economy. Top makers use top quality, well matched SS props, right out of the factory, too. Often, a top brand will have a prop that is matched better than a lower quality brand.

JD Powers is good, but you need to mix that in with feedback here, there, and anywhere. I don't care for sound systems to be affecting overall ratings.

(Cobalt and Formula are my 'drool' brands. I tend to think of them as Porsche-level)

 

[jkust]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

There are so many brands you really have to take the time and climb around on each. You will very quickly realize where each brand targets on the continuum, who is more reputation than substance, who is out of your league and who just builds a boat right where you want to be.
I can tell you I looked at just about every brand available for sale here new and used in the 2000's when I bought last year. If you were to ask me where a specific brand fits or my observations, I could tell you my thoughts but somone that owns that brand would likely disagree since it is the nature of the beast. At least one of the helpful observations I discovered was the heavier the hull for the size, the more expensive and the nicer the boat seemed to be. Someone mentioned Cobalt and they are heavy while someone mentioned Stingray and they are not but Cobalts are also not known for speed and Stingrays are. All that said the new boats being produced today are all pretty darn nice but if one cost 45k new and the same size other brand cost 30k new you have to be getting something for that 15k (assuming the same power). The funny thing is at the end of the day, my family could care less what we tool around in. The 'niceness' of the boat is really for my benefit. As for the JD Powers ratings, I am not sold on their methods for creating the list. I say that knowing that my particular brand has been on the top of the list recently.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

Good point about form over function. Boats, like any consumer good, are designed with one of two purposes, which can conflict: to be sold, or to be used. Remember how drink holders shaped like juice boxes sold more minivans than their engines and transmissions? Those buyers don't think abuot a car's realfunction. Think about a boat made and sold without a bilge pump--clearly for the chumps, and not for the boaters.
Boats with all that pretty stuff are made to be sold. After that, the manufacturer doesn't care. Boats that don't turn the head of a non-boater are made to be used. The manufacturer can create a customer for life.

So a lot of crap boats are just that b/c the manufacturer wanted something that would move to the newbie market, and who cares about function or quality. Like a boat without a bilge pump, or with moving parts and electronics that fail after two years around salt water.

 

[msd58]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

With so many makes and models out there I have a very hard time keeping track of what is good and what is not. I know a lot is personal preference but what makes are considered the low/very low end? What models are considered the Rolls Royce of boats? I have heard good things about sea ray and bad things about say tahoe. What are your top choices for best/worse. Maybe top three, top 5 or if you wanna go all out top 10.... To keep things simple lets narrow this down to say 16-23' fish/ski models.

You may want to refer to JD Power ratings a basic guide thats about it. One thing to keep in mind when you are talking boats is there are powered by two or three basic engine makers. If you are talking about I/O's only two Mercruiser & Volvo. O/B's are different story: Mercury, Honda, Evinrude, Suzuki, Yamaha and some others. If you are talking used; I would take a lowered end boat that's been maintained properly over a Roll Royce boat that has nor been maintained. That being said your biggest expense year in and year out in going to be the drive train. Hull failures are extreemly rare. 16'-23' boats is most competitive boat segment out there. So unless you want to spend big dollars its pretty equal out there. Shop functionality and utlility before brand. Unless you want to spend a ton of money for something that you only put 40 hours per year.

 

[wingmastr23]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

You may want to refer to JD Power ratings a basic guide. One thing to keep in mind when you are talking boats is there are powered by two or three basic engine makers. If you are talking about I/O's only two Mercruiser & Volvo. O/B's are different story: Mercury, Honda, Evinrude, Suzuki, Yamaha and some others. If you are talking used i would take a lowered end boat thats been maintained properly over a Roll Royce boat that has nor been maintained. 16'-23' boats is most competitive boat segment out there. So unless you want to spend big dollars its pretty equal out there.

Yea...I was thinking the same thing - JDPowers shows such a variance in "engines" for each boat....when most of the boats have the same engines...

 

[likalar]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

I have to agree that Cobalt is near the top of the pile for production boats. Look at the skill applied to wiring, seating vinyls, build materials, design; even in hidden areas that aren't usually noticed or accessed, the surfaces are smooth and nicely detailed.
Years ago we helped a guy with a stranded Bayliner that was nearly new. I couldn't believe how rough the glasswork was in the battery area. Luckily, he had Band-aids on board. The wiring was very sloppy, too. Maybe that company has improved since then.
When looking for any boat, new or used, top or bottom of the pile, a critical survey is always in order. I know it may sound like a waste of money on a new vessel, but a good survey can turn up faults that need fixing, and it's better that the builder or dealer pay the costs. It doesn't hurt to ask. Once the survey is issued, it gives the buyer good ammunition to have things made right. A surveyor will notice things like flimsy battery or fuel tank tie-downs, poor wiring terminals, poor sealing of fasteners into the wood-backed transom....on and on. Good luck.
Larry

 

[jkust]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

I didn't mention it before but if you are looking on the high end, you might take a look at Chaparral. Chap owners might argue the same quality as Cobalt. Reminds me a little of the Ford commercials that try to argue they are every bit as good as Honda and Toyoya. Whatever the case they are a quality product and they get the details right on their boats. Really you will notice the quality as time goes on and the boat gets used. It's sort of hard to know what people mean by quality differences as you first start familiarizing yourself with boats when you stand in any brand boat and at first blush it looks very nice. Also, Cobalt no longer produces a small bowrider. I believe 2002 was the last year they did which is why I can not comment on their small bowrider quality. Their entry level bowrider they produce these day is really a pretty expensive boat. Some of the nicest comments I have gotten at the launch were from guys launching their Cobalts.

 

[QC]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

Chap owners might argue the same quality as Cobalt.

Only those who have not cut their hands on exposed screws . . . Where the Chap fails is where you can't see and I even like them.

I agree this is somewhat silly without discussing the application. For the boating my family prefers the preference is Hallett, and I don't want a Cheetah (bleccchh) . . .

 

[superpop]

Re: Best and worse manufacturers???

My boat gets confused for a Cobalt all the time, I consider it a complement. I poured over both Chaparral and Cobalt as my two finalists when I purchased my boat last year, I could not find too many perceptible differences between the two with regards to materials used and design. And I looked at a lot of factors like vinyl weight and electrical systems layout and design along with parts used and motor packages offered. I also poked around behind panels and in areas where I might need access at some point and found nice finish work on both. I just could not find a feature on the cobalt that commanded the 20-30% premium. Not a bash on Cobalt as I love the brand, but I ended up with a Chaparral because of the cost. Regardless of what you buy, it is a great time to be a buyer.