Bilge Pump Question

[ccave04]

Hello all,

I am a new boat owner as of last fall and will be docking my boat this season for the first time. The dock I am going to have does not have power to it so I have been taking a look at how my bilge pump works to make sure nothing happens while it is there.

Boat Info:
2000 20' Marada Open Bow 198SKE
5.0 L V8 Merc with Alpha One Outdrive

The boat has two batteries in it, bare with me I am new to boats, the 1st battery has all sorts of wires into it (see pic) second battery just has one connection to negative and one to positive. If I turn the battery power to off and fill the bilge with water nothing happens. With battery 1 installed only and turning the knob to battery 1 when the bilge is filled it auto pumps the water out without having to flip the switch on the dash (dash light turns red until it stops, if activated by switch it turns orange). When I installed battery 2 and turned read switch to battery 2 only same things happen.

Now if I leave on 1 only 2 only or on All every 2 minutes (I timed this) the bilge kicks on real quick and checks for water then off. Does not run too long but I assume if it sits there all week and does this it will kill the battery? The previous owner said he always turned the switch to off when he was done with the boat, but he did not keep it in a slip. So I am wondering what I should do, po said he left the switch on once and came back to two dead batteries and he had to buy new ones as they were ruined. Wondering if there is a solution?

Here are some pics:

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Is there only a bilge pump or also a float switch wired in? Sounds like you have no float switch. I'm not aware that a bilge pump should turn on by itself every couple minutes then turn back off if there's no water to pump out. You may want to research the model bilge pump you have and see if that is normal.
You have the correct wiring in place if there is no float switch but my boats are set up with a float switch that would automatically turn on the pump if the water got high enough but also a switch on the dash that I can manually turn on the pump if I needed to. Just do not use the 'all' position while away from the boat so you don't end up with 2 dead batteries. You would want to make sure either you or someone else visits the boat periodically to verify the battery supplying power to the pump is still alive.
Then for testing purposes, try starting the boat with the battery set to the same position that it was on for the pump and verify it has enough juice to start the boat. Turn the battery switch to just the other battery and verify that battery starts the boat by itself. Then to have the alternator charge both batteries, turn to the 'all' position and run the boat.
Are you aware you are never to turn the battery switch through the OFF position while the boat is running or you can cause electrical damage?
Mark

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Either you have a hidden (bad) float switch, a bade bilge pump, or the wrong type of bilge pump. Ifyou don't have a float switch (I suspect you don't), then I would get a float switch, install it and wire it directly to a battery. This way, it will draw no power until the water level rises.

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

His bilge pump is one that, rather then using a float switch, it turns itself on every few minutes for a short time to check for load (ie, water). If it senses load, it pumps until it no longer senses load. This mechanism was developed, I think, to prevent a stuck float switch from sinking the boat.

I'm not sure how long it would take this mechanism to drain a battery... probably a long time. So, ccave, how long do you expect between your visits to the boat this season?

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

There are bilge pumps that operate on a built in timer. They run for 5 seconds or so and shut off if they don't detect the resistance of water on the impeller. This is fine if you're using your boat all the time or have a source to keep the battery charged.

Personally, I would replace it with a standard 500-750 GPH pump and float switch. Simple replacement and doesn't kill the battery unless you're taking on lots of water. It should be wired directly to one battery so it can still function with the switch in the OFF position.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

I agree on the probable type of bilge pump. Wrong for his application.

Howevet, I think if he just fronts the current one with a float switch, the pump will get no power to cycle every minute. That will save buying a new pump.

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

I'm not sure how long it would take this mechanism to drain a battery... probably a long time. So, ccave, how long do you expect between your visits to the boat this season?

I live within a 15 min drive to where it will be docked, so I assume I will be there at least once a week. Probably more at first...

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Personally, I would replace it with a standard 500-750 GPH pump and float switch. Simple replacement and doesn't kill the battery unless you're taking on lots of water. It should be wired directly to one battery so it can still function with the switch in the OFF position.

The only problem is that it doesnt even seem that I can access the bilge pump. From sound, it seems as if the bilge pump is underneath the engine. So how do I get to it, take the outdrive off?

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Can't imagine a boat being built where you couldn't access the bilge pump. You may have to contort yourself a bit, but has to be a way.

If you are just adding a float switch, you don't necessarily have to touch the pump. Just interrupt the wires to the pump to wire the float switch in. Place the switch in the bilge as close as you can mount it to the pump, but definitely where it will be in the bilge water.

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Ok, I pulled out the firewall so that I could get down to see the bilge pump. I can just get my hand on it and I don't think I would be able to unsecure it without removing some more items. I was thinking about just buying a second bilge pump with float switch and installing that as well to battery #2 and just having to bilge pumps down there. Is this a bad idea?

Here is what I can see:

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

After doing a little more research, I have found the bilge pump that is installed on my boat at an online store. It turns on every 125 seconds detects for a load and if none is present shuts off (as stated by someone above). I am going to do some testing in the driveway and let it run off battery 2 only and see how long it will last before it kills the battery. If it does kill battery 2 when I fire the boat off of battery one it should re-charge battery 2 correct? Or is this actually bad for the battery? I was also contemplating investing in one of those solar trickle charges to connect to battery 2 while it is at the slip?

Thanks for the input guys!
-Chris

 

[coreybv]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

It turns on every 125 seconds detects for a load and if none is present shuts off

Yeah, I hate those. Completely retarded way to design a bilge pump, IMHO.* It probably won't kill the battery as long as you're on the boat once a week or so to charge everything back up, but what happens if something comes up? Let's say there's a death in the family and you're out of town for a funeral. Now the bilge pump has already unnecessarily killed half your battery during dry weather before that huge rain storm even moves in.

Personally, I would at least put a float switch in front of the pump so it's not sucking juice from the battery for no reason. You only want it coming on when there's actually water there.

Granted, we're talking about preventing problems that aren't likely to happen, but we're also talking about a large investment that can be better protected by spending under fifty bucks.

*(This would actually make sense on a commercial boat that gets run every day, since it would protect against a blocked float switch. But not for a recreational boat that will, typically, only be used on weekends, and will often sit unused longer than that when "life happens".)

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Never a bad idea to install an additional bilge pump!

However, to install a float switch for your existing pump, you don't have to touch the pump. Find the wires that go to the pump. Install the float switch as close as you can to the pump, but at least where it will be in the area that the pump services. Cut the positive pump wire and wire in the new float switch. Done.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Bilge Pump Question

bypass that one that comes on all the time. what a dumb idea for a moored boat. just install a whole new rig, but use the old hose and through-hull.

remember, if you have 2 pumps you have to have 2 hoses each going out the boat.

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Ok, had some more time to fiddle around on the boat today. Realized that the bilge pump that is there is secured to a 1x4 and then set inside the bilge with a weight on it to keep in place ( I was really confused as to how someone got in there to mount down the bilge). Pulled this up out of the bilge so I can access pump, pump has a solid brown wire going into it, a brown / white wire going into it and a solid black wire going into it. So I want to buy a float switch and put this in front of the bilge pump and mount it to this 1x4. I have yet to buy the float switch but will tonight, how do I go about re-wiring this so it will function with the battery switch (see top photo) is on OFF and then the pump will only activate when water is in bilge.

I also could just buy a whole new bilge pump / float now that I can access this thing to mount it.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

The brown and brown/white are power feeds from the battery and from the helm switch to the pump. The black is a ground. Use a test light to find out which one has power going to it (hot all the time). That is the wire that goes to the float switch, then to the pump. The other wire will become hot when the dash switch is switched into manual mode.

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Just purchased a float switch from Wally world. It has one solid brown wire on it. Directions say to wire this to the Positive terminal on the battery and then back to the bilge pump. I am going to snip the solid brown wire that runs to the bilge pump and wire this bad boy in there. Hopefully after this the pump will now run even when I turn the battery switch to OFF.

I will post my results. Thanks
-Chris

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Just purchased a float switch from Wally world. It has one solid brown wire on it. Directions say to wire this to the Positive terminal on the battery and then back to the bilge pump. I am going to snip the solid brown wire that runs to the bilge pump and wire this bad boy in there. Hopefully after this the pump will now run even when I turn the battery switch to OFF.

Should work just fine as long as the original installer wired it that way. That's why I recommended to use a test light to determine which one is hot. In the event it doesn't work, now is the time to wire it correctly.

 

[ccave04]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Should work just fine as long as the original installer wired it that way. That's why I recommended to use a test light to determine which one is hot. In the event it doesn't work, now is the time to wire it correctly.

Fireman you were right on, works perfect. So now the float kicks on when the switch is on off, and the bilge button on the dash still works when the batteries are on. I do have to find a way to get my drill gun down in the bilge to mount the float :facepalm: need to borrow a little dremel or something ...

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Bilge Pump Question

Fireman you were right on, works perfect. So now the float kicks on when the switch is on off, and the bilge button on the dash still works when the batteries are on. I do have to find a way to get my drill gun down in the bilge to mount the float :facepalm: need to borrow a little dremel or something ...

Glad it worked out for you. To mount the pump, first mount the base (screened portion) to a piece of painted 1 x 4 or starboard (or other suitable non-rotting material) with a couple of screws, then use some marine epoxy to mate the board onto the bilge floor.