Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

[1980Coronado]

Deleted

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Add a 2nd Battery Just to Run Lift Motor?

Re: Add a 2nd Battery Just to Run Lift Motor?

Deleted

 

[1980Coronado]

Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Ok....I'm trying this again...trying to make it more concise.

I want to use a Blue Sea: Add A Battery...to....Add a battery to my boat. The attached diagram has some mark-ups of questions I have about it.

My inboard has only one wire connecting to each battery terminal currently. I do not intend on separating the accessories out for the second battery. That would require major reconfig. of current wiring harness. The only reason for adding the second battery is to be able to use it for a 12V lift motor, and to be able to charge the second battery while using the boat.

Questions:

1.) Does anyone see an issue with what I'm proposing here.
2.) Why is there a fuse (150 amp) on both sides of the switched positive lead going to the second battery?
3.) Why is there not then also a fuse between the battery and the switch on the start battery? I understand the motor is already protected.

4.) What type of battery would you recommend for the 12V Lift Motor....the Lift Motor MFG has no recommendations in the instructions.

Thanks for any suggestions/help. I want to make sure this is going to work like I think it will.

 

[1980Coronado]

Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Somebody has to have knowledge of this....?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Fusing both legs probably has to do with the location of the various components and the length of the runs between them. Remember, fuses protect the wire, not the device. If the device causes 150 amp fuse to blow, that device is history anyway. If there is a short in a wire potentially carrying 150 amps or more, you have an instant arc welder. Always fuse at the source. If there was no fuse between the battery and ACR a short in that leg results in fire. If there was no fuse between the battery and switch the result is fire. Same for the run to the fuse panel if that were used.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Ok I understand the fuses at the ACR....but....the 150 amp fuses on both sides of the switch is odd. If the switch is off the wire to the devices have no power so why fuse both sides? I understand the fuse between the battery and the switch. Obviously I won't need 150 amp fuses there.

Then when you look at the other side....no protection at all between the battery and the switch. The only protection on the other side is what the original system and motor have.

What are your thoughts on the application with a lift motor? Think it'll work well.....I think my alternator is 55 amp max....is charging that extra battery with the heavy load required by the lift motor going to tax it too much? I don't wan't to cause a problem with the alternator. I'm a mechanical.....sparky stuff makes me nervous!

Thanks for responding....was starting to hear crickets chirping!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

You asked for opinions so here ya go. I feel you are going way overboard (not literally). Try this on! Battery on the dock. Charge it as required by running an extension cord to the dock and use a portable charger. Why lug another battery and add a bunch of electronics for that single purpose. I can't see your dock area so perhaps I don't have the full picture. When it comes to boat wiring I subscribe to the KISS principle. Adding a bunch of electronics adds potential points of failure which we can do without on a boat. I can also see the battery (or two) on a wheeled cart that sits on shore. Short cable to the lift. When done for the day/week/weekend you wheel the batteries to the house and charge them. No left possibility and if using a smart charger, they can remain hooked up indefinitely, or until the next outing. Lets run some numbers: A group 27 deep cycle can run a 23 amp load for about 2.5 hours. I doubt the lift motor will draw more than 23 amps lifting, and a lot less dropping. So if we figure a 2 minute run time to lift, that means a fully charged battery would run the lift about 100 times. Obviously the actual current draw will alter that number but even if it was 50 times thats a lot of up & downs.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Thanks for the feedback....just what I'm looking for! I'm a keep it simple guy myself. I understand the point. I wanted to buy a 110 V system and run power out to the lift. This is my in-laws property and they give me a spot to park the lift and boat. Dad didn't want to run power down the dock....so 12v it is. The lift motor is something we need for this heavy boat. It's a PITA and back to crank by hand.

I can buy a solar charger with a battery tray that hangs inside the lift canopy. They make it in 10watt and 20watt kits. They recommended the 20 watt for a heavy boat and used more than 4 times per week. What your telling me is that the 10 watt would work....but I might have to top it off with a portable charger once in a while. The price difference is large between 10 watt and 20 watt kits. The 10 watt would be the same or less money than adding the switch and ACR. Also.....having the battery on the dock isn't going to fly with father in-law.....so I'm ruling that out....don't even need to consider it. Hanging it under the canopy would be fine.

What I'm trying to avoid here is having to charge the darn thing all the time. Last thing I want to do when I get to the lake house is do more work. The switch/ACR was an cheeper alternative to the 20 watt solar kit ($360)....and it gave me a backup battery. By the way....this is a direct drive motor, not a wheel to wheel type. I don't know what the current draw will be....didn't find it in the mannual and the motor is at the lake house right now. It will be dependent on the gear ratio and the weight of the boat ultimately anyway...so.....10watt solar kit mounted to lift vs. Second battery in boat with switch/ACR? Hmmmm.... I'm now back to considering solar!

 

[Pacoson71]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

The link i gave you in your other thread will work for your needs.

Two wires from the motor to the isolator, four off, 2 to the starting battery and when it's charged the current charges the second battery. If the voltage drops in the primary battery the isolator opens back up to keep it charged.

Under 70$ plus wire.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

I'll have to go back and look at that. Thought I needed an ACR to accomplish that.

 

[Pacoson71]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

http://www.iboats.com/Charge-on-the...5649609--**********.786607650--view_id.341868

I agree with your thought on this product. yes I would give it some phone calls to the tech dept and they will walk you through it to verify.

But it sounds pretty good.

 

[Pacoson71]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

A better description of the product with wiring diagrams to boot. From the manufacture
http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu-8/product-269/125-amp-voltage-sensitive-relay-vsr-

 

[jhebert]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

...Why is there a fuse (150 amp) on both sides of the switched positive lead going to the second battery?

...Why is there not then also a fuse between the battery and the switch on the start battery?

The 150-ampere fuse in the circuit feeding the secondary power distribution panel is there to protect that circuit when the battery switch has paralleled the two batteries.

There is no fuse in the engine starting circuit because the current needed for engine starting is very high and the fuse would have to be a very large capacity fuse. It is standard practice that there is not a fuse in the primary power distribution to the engine starter motor.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Still makes no sense to have a 150 amp fuse in the same line on both sided of the switch.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Still makes no sense to have a 150 amp fuse in the same line on both sided of the switch.

When the battery switch is in the COMBINED position the 150-ampere fuse from the second battery limits the current that can be drawn into the engine starting circuit.

What really makes no sense is why one would purchase the ACR with the added STARTING ISOLATION feature and then not connect it. If you do not want the STARTING ISOLATION feature, buy the ACR device without it. That model costs less.

I investigated the cost of all the ancillary components (such as the fuses, the wiring, the connectors, and so on) that would be needed to comply with the recommended installation practice shown by the manufacturer. The extra components cost more than the ACR, particularly the high-current fuses and the fuse holders for them. It was after that analysis that I abandoned the concept of using an ACR. Instead I purchased a secondary alternator output accessory kit for my engine. I have two isolated alternator outputs, each charges its own battery. The wiring is very much simpler and the cost was less.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

When the battery switch is in the COMBINED position the 150-ampere fuse from the second battery limits the current that can be drawn into the engine starting circuit.

What really makes no sense is why one would purchase the ACR with the added STARTING ISOLATION feature and then not connect it. If you do not want the STARTING ISOLATION feature, buy the ACR device without it. That model costs less.

I investigated the cost of all the ancillary components (such as the fuses, the wiring, the connectors, and so on) that would be needed to comply with the recommended installation practice shown by the manufacturer. The extra components cost more than the ACR, particularly the high-current fuses and the fuse holders for them. It was after that analysis that I abandoned the concept of using an ACR. Instead I purchased a secondary alternator output accessory kit for my engine. I have two isolated alternator outputs, each charges its own battery. The wiring is very much simpler and the cost was less.

A fuse does not limit anything. It's either good or blown. The redundant 150 amp fuses make no sense. When the switch is in the combined position there is one 150 amp fuse in the line....when it is in the on position there are two 150 amp fuses in the same line! Silly!

You didn't read. My boat has two leads comming to the battery.....everything goes to those two leads.....so....if I'm not separating my accessories out....why would I care about start protection....I wouldn't. I haven't settled on the blue sea switch/ACR.....that's why I posted here...to get opinions.....starting to believe that a 10watt solar panel is the answer.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

I read your post. Apparently you don't understand the meaning of "limit." That is what all over-current protection devices do. They limit the current that can be drawn.

Regarding the schematic diagram from BLUE SEA SYSTEMS, contact the person who drew up the diagram if you want further explanation of what function each component performs. I have exhausted my ability to explain it to you.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

I read your post. Apparently you don't understand the meaning of "limit." That is what all over-current protection devices do. They limit the current that can be drawn.

Regarding the schematic diagram from BLUE SEA SYSTEMS, contact the person who drew up the diagram if you want further explanation of what function each component performs. I have exhausted my ability to explain it to you.

As posted previously by Silvertip.....the fuse protects the wire...it fails when there is an overload.....it limits nothing! The fuse does not limit the current comming from battery 2.....the battery does not decide how much current to provide....the starter draws what it needs. If it draws too much the fuse blows

So explain why I would want start protect on a circuit that currently functions just fine without it......I simply want to have a battery for the lift motor that requires the smallest amount if attention from me.....I don't want to be messing with charging batteries, and I don't want to come in and not be able to lift the boat. I don't need a 2nd battery on the boat, but if it's less expensive than a 20 watt solar panel it's worth investigating.

10 watt solar panel with hanging battery bracket is looking more like the best solution.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

Moderators.....just delete this thread.....it's pointless!

 

[bulleyblue]

Re: Blue Sea Add A Battery: Diagram and Questions

What everyone seems to have missed operating the switch in the combined position. With the switch in the combined position the fuse closes to the battery is for the draw from the motor and the other fuse is for the house. You would not want a fuse on the starting battery if that fuse would blow you would be dead in the water