Boat manufactures?????

[Limited-Time]

Will they ever bring manufacturing up to other industries current standards? How much longer can they manufacture wireing harnesses with sub standard connectors, and interiors with moisture affected materials? Yet constantly raise already inflated prices?.......

 

[ondarvr]

The prices aren't inflated, there's little to no profit in building boats, that's why so many brands have either gone away, or have been absorbed by other builders.

I'd say that the low end components are actually an attempt to keep prices down so people will actually buy new boats, this may or may not be a good business practice, but with even a slightly higher cost, even with better components, nobody will buy them.

​Kind of like Chinese stuff at Walmart, the quality frequently isn't high, but the price is low enough to get people to bite.

​I have friend that always complains about the low quality of the stuff he buys, saying it just doesn't last. I keep telling him if he wants better quality there are several options, you just need to be willing to pay for it.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Boats have a life expectancy of 15 years. They have a 5 year warranty.

To keep costs low so people can afford boating and the company can make some sort of proffit, you get the low end boats available.

If you want high-end materials, spend $100k or more on the boat

 

[briangcc]

I'll say they've actually come a long way. I bought my '05 Four Winns new and paid around 30k for it including upgraded tandem trailer w/spare. I had (7) items on my list of things to repair after the first couple of trips out - one happened to be a void in the fiberglass at the stern tie down point which cracked the gel coat! Shouldn't happen on a new boat at all. Another happened to be the boat was taking on water while running. Marina couldn't figure it out so I had to take it to a second marina to have them correct it and then fought with Volvo to get them to pay the 2nd marina as boat was under warranty. **Second marina was at the time a Volvo dealer as well.

When I bought my current boat, the price was relatively the same. The punch list I had after the first time out was down to (4) items which were all addressed by the selling marina without any fuss.

So I'd argue they're getting better. And they do listen too. When I was shopping for my very first boat, I ended up with a Bayliner as they were the ONLY dealership who actually wanted to talk to me at a boat show. Signed the papers the next day. Got a call from one of their competitors asking if I had been to the boat show and if so was I interested in talking with one of their marinas. Explained they lost a sale as they couldn't be bothered. Fast forward to the next purchase which was my '05 Four Winns which was also a boat show purchase. Much more receptive. My latest boat, also a boat show purchase, even more receptive.

 

[jkust]

That's such a broad statement but I get that boats and cars aren't exactly built to the same standards at times. So many are still hand made. There is a pretty big difference between cheap boats and boats of the same size with the same engine and drive that cost more for reasons that are mostly hidden. The cheaper boats look great for a while then their inferior materials and build start to show over time all else equal. I'm drawn to boats that have better components and a higher level of build quality versus many other run of the mill lake boats because I see all the time on my lake what the cheaper but same LOA boats turn into over a period of years.

 

[ondarvr]

I'd agree the overall level of quality has improved, while there are still some at the low end, most have stepped up their efforts on the QC end of things.

 

[ajgraz]

I think jkust has something. Any particular model of car is turned out by the 10's or 100's of thousands, and built (largely) by robots. Any particular boat model is turned out by the dozens to hundreds, and hand built by low-paid labor.

IMO, like hot-rodding cars back in the day, improving your boat over what the manufacturer turned out is half the fun of boating!

 

[muskyfins]

My big issue has been the use of wood. I know it's been discussed here before, but we can do things with thermo plastics that will significantly out perform wood and never rot. Boat structure will last hundreds of years. I'm sure it comes down to cost, but I'd pay an extra couple grand for a boat that will never have a soft floor or rotted stringers or transom. Mechnical or cosmetic stuff is easy to fix by comparison.

disclaimer-I've spent my entire career in mechanical plastics and therefore sort of have a vested interest.

 

[ondarvr]

My big issue has been the use of wood. I know it's been discussed here before, but we can do things with thermo plastics that will significantly out perform wood and never rot. Boat structure will last hundreds of years. I'm sure it comes down to cost, but I'd pay an extra couple grand for a boat that will never have a soft floor or rotted stringers or transom. Mechnical or cosmetic stuff is easy to fix by comparison.

disclaimer-I've spent my entire career in mechanical plastics and therefore sort of have a vested interest.

Those boats are out there, they just cost more.

 

[muskyfins]

most of those boats I know about are made for fishing. haven't seen many family cruisers sans wood.:noidea:

 

[jkust]

In addition, many of the qualities of wood are hard to beat in our lake boats just that they are succeptible to rot. Saw a great article once about this very thing and darn if i can find it. I like that my boat has king starboard type materials instead of wood in most areas as well as flow through foams and other materials that are impermeable to water. There are still some wood components in a few spots sandwiched between fiberglass but end of the day, the stringers still have wood in them which as mentioned above is still the norm in many boat brands this many years along. The electrical work on my boat too is very well done which is a big corner cut item in many boats. Some still even use fuses instead of circuit breakers which shows me that they are cutting pennies off the build. It takes about ten seconds to quickly pick apart a bowrider and find the cut corners but hey...at least it has shiny speaker grills. I'd take a hand made boat with some wood content every day over a VEC type, mass produced for quick production but marketed as something positive because it has no wood. Of course the VEC boats were all the smaller sized boats so can't really be directly compared to larger bowriders I suppose.

 

[62cruiserinc]

If you want to see bad quality, go buy an RV. They have cheap materials combined with even worse assembly quality. I have a 12 yr old travel trailer I bought new and the list of things that happened due to poor materials and assembly is long. For example bent frame, trim screwed into 3/32" thick lauan falling off, staples driven into 120V and 12V wiring, fridge vent covered with insulation, water tank almost fell off onto road due to missing hardware, floor sagging due to thin wood backed by styrofoam, etc,etc,etc.

By comparison my (new to me) 1981 Sea Ray 26' boat feels like a tank.

Steve

 

[Scott Danforth]

My big issue has been the use of wood. I know it's been discussed here before, but we can do things with thermo plastics that will significantly out perform wood and never rot. Boat structure will last hundreds of years. I'm sure it comes down to cost, but I'd pay an extra couple grand for a boat that will never have a soft floor or rotted stringers or transom. Mechnical or cosmetic stuff is easy to fix by comparison.

disclaimer-I've spent my entire career in mechanical plastics and therefore sort of have a vested interest.

been discussed ad nauseam. to make boating affordable to the general masses, you need low end boats. RV's are the same

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...52-perspective-of-fiberglass-boat-design-life

disclaimer-I've spent my entire career in mechanical plastics and therefore sort of have a vested interest.

many boats that fit the bill.

however your not talking about searays or bayliners or anything shown at the local boat show.

your also not talking a few grand, your talking tens if not hundreds of grand difference

your not even talking Chris Craft on the very very low end. More like Nortech on the low end, Riva in the middle, Hinkley, etc on the high end

http://www.hinckleyyachts.com/ (BTW, a typical 13 Meter Hinkley is about $3M)

even composites have a finite life. fiberglass suffers resin breakdown, stress cracks, etc. carbon fiber is strong as heck, light, expensive to manufacture as a one-off and has a very finite life cycle. I have seen the carnage first hand on both air-frame components and sailing masts that explode when they hit that fatigue limit.

Foam breaks down after 15-20 years, most plastics degrade. heck, even 5200 only lasts 2 years in sunlight and about 3 years in contact with chlorine

we have to be realists here. do they make such boats. Yes. are they high-volume - No (many are one-off). can those of us that make up the 99% of the worlds population afford them, no. What we can afford, we can take care of and not feel bad when we spill the bloody mary on the deck.

 

[Limited-Time]

Great responses. I have to admit the mini rant was prompted by the tare down of my latest project. A mid 90 24 foot Crest pontoon that sat unattended/uncovered for a few years. I knew the carpet and vinyl were junk when I bought the boat. I planned on replacing both during the rebuild. That said the decking (plywood) is in great shape, I can only conclude its marine grade. However the rest of the interior components both wooden and foam were waterlogged/rotted. Top that off with the ancillary wiring harnesses being manufactured with non water proof crimp connectors and automotive type non marine grade wire, and you end up with yards of corroded/suspect wiring harnesses as well.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Great responses. I have to admit the mini rant was prompted by the tare down of my latest project. A mid 90 24 foot Crest pontoon that sat unattended/uncovered for a few years. I knew the carpet and vinyl were junk when I bought the boat. I planned on replacing both during the rebuild. That said the decking (plywood) is in great shape, I can only conclude its marine grade. However the rest of the interior components both wooden and foam were waterlogged/rotted. Top that off with the ancillary wiring harnesses being manufactured with non water proof crimp connectors and automotive type non marine grade wire, and you end up with yards of corroded/suspect wiring harnesses as well.

You bought a neglected project that needs a full restoration.

 

[Limited-Time]

You bought a neglected project that needs a full restoration.

I knew that going into the project. It just burns me I have to try and find replacement parts i.e. Running lights, docking lights that are 20 plus years old just because the OEM cut corners on the wiring. The fact the needed replacements are molded into the formed plastic housings makes it doubly painful. The sub standard wiring caused the entire socket assemblyes to corrode beyond repair.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Your boat had a 15 year design life. Its over 20 years old

 

[Nathanvg]

Your boat had a 15 year design life. Its over 20 years old

Not only 20+ years old, but also left uncovered for years. Seems to be well beyond engineered criteria.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Maybe not pertinent to your particular rebuild, but keep in mind that boat manufacturers are only part of the final product. Marinas and boat dealers do quite a bit of additional rigging that can be good quality or laughable.