boat rot...wet foam prevention.

[erikgreen]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Ayuh,.......

The answer to that is about 2/3s the way down My 1st post on this subject,........

Sure there is... but only if you count voids in the fiberglass layup as compartments

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

On my fiberglass 20 footer the hull cap kinda forms an area of about 8" tall and 6" wide all around the top of my hull. Why cant I run plastic conduit in there to run my wires through and pour it full of foam. Then I would not have any below deck to worry about. Would that be enough for floatation?

there is a formula for calcluating flotation in cg rules......while any foam would help....i dont think that would be enough to support the weight of the vessel......it would..... (unless you covered the bottom with plastic liner)... be more ...(open to getting water on it)....however it would be easy to get out. and relpace....

over all...its not a bad idea (m.h.o.) if your motor/electronics are out you could allways swamp the bote too see.........

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

looks like adam and jamies ping pong balls are gonna come in to play soon

 

[Bondo]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

there is a formula for calcluating flotation in cg rules

Ayuh,....
You also want to figure in the natural buoyancy of the things In the boat,+ the hull itself Displaces water, so it has some natural bouyancy too......

I think mspring's Idea has merit if you're willing to give up access to everything under the gunnels,......
At least it would be self-draining foam, as gravity would do it so long as the bottom of it was open.....

I'm Still leaving the Atlantis Foamless,......
I'll just keep the PFDs handy......
And a roll of Duct Tape for the coolers...............

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

i might be doing that bondo...

someone else had allready done the job a few years back and taken out the foam...so there wasnt any in it as long as i owned it...the thing still rotted but.....(farmers feild uncovered)....

after the hull is done....I KNOW IT WILL BE STRONG ENOUGH.....

i really think im gonna try the innertube idea.....so what if it doesnt work....there wont be any foam anyhow...open chamber with ventelation....and as you say lots of pfd's.....and swim fins

 

[Robj]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

The hull displaces water because there is air in the hull. If fibreglass is more dense than water, which I think it is, it will sink. Fill a fibreglass boat up with water and I am sure it will sink.

As far as floatation foam, there is no water vapor within the foam, unless of course it gets wet and saturated. My guess is that the bubbles within the foam are formed by a chemical reaction that happens when the two parts are mixed together. They do not contain air, most likely CO2, so that is not a source of moisture.

If you were to use an air bladder such as an inertube, if you have a hull failure and water ingress, the water pressure would tend to compress the bladder, and it would therefore displace less water. Also a bladder would leak, they all do over time, same idea as a tire, it will lose air eventually. That is why people are experimenting with Nitrogen for inflating tires. Larger molecule, won't leak down as fast.

While foam has its problems, I did and still would use it in my boat. Just seal everything properly, even the stringer/floor joint. I used 5200 to do that. Or the other option is you can always look at ways to drain the water if it gets into the foam. There are benefits to using it, and in my mind the benefits outweigh the problems.

Oops if I see ping pong balls or innertubes floating around Okanagan lake this summer, I'll come looking for you.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Oops if I see ping pong balls or innertubes floating around Okanagan lake this summer, I'll come looking for you.

thats so freekin funny.....its taken me 5 mins just to type this

better come lookin for me loooooong before that rob.....that beer at the el gets mighty cold unless someone is paying attention.....

ya know.....i will have that bliner around till it sells ...i figger mid may.....it will be just sitting till then......and my boat will be done ,,,(lord willing).....sounds like an excuse to raft................you could bring up the wife......the girls could talk dresses and we could take care of some o that carona!

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

im still laughin bout that......

what a sight......my girl and my heads bobbin in the water......

and a sea of ping pong balls all over the lake....

little kids at rotary beach swimmin out to get some.....

rofl

 

[Robj]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Hope to be going up there within the next few months. Will definitely check out your project, and that pot belly stove of yours would provide the perfect environment to have a few Corona's.

I know when I ripped my boat apart the foam was saturated. But my boat was neglected, so everything was rotten. I sealed up the compartments, store my boat in a garage and hopefully the foam will remain dry.

On my previous post I forgot to add pop bottles and pool noodles, or how about packing peanuts. But on a serious note, you know people who work at Svara or however it is spelled, ask them for their opinion on the foam issue.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

safara is getting back to me......

man thattl be a blast.....

watch dc soon for a guy with a chain saw...heh heh heh

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

just re-read.....

still laughin

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

What about foam-filled vacuum packed baggies? Just a thought.

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

sarg if they were able to get in and out easy..............why not?

if for some stupid reason...they got wet....you could remove them.just a hatch under a seat....whats the difference between chunks of foam like some old manns used to do and that....(besides the plastic barrier).....you might be on to somthing........hhhmmmmmm

rob wouldnt have to look for ping pong balls

 

[SgtMaj]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Yeah, and with the plastic barrier, they are much less likely to get wet, plus, they would be broken up into smaller chunks that would be isolated from one another, so even if one gets saturated, the rest would be left high and dry. Oh, and the foam can still mould itself to the shape you want.

We'll just look for the plastic baggies filled with foam... Every time I see ping-pong balls floating in water though, it's going to remind me of this thread and I will laugh seemingly for no reason at all, to those around me.

 

[oops!]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Every time I see ping-pong balls floating in water though, it's going to remind me of this thread and I will laugh seemingly for no reason at all, to those around me.

im still laughin

im gonna work on this idea....

this is really simmelar to what ronnie posted....but ...if you flo coated the hull...structurly it would be very strong. if strong, you wouldnt need to fill evey void.....also if encased in plastic...(zip loc baggies) you could stack them and they wouldnt rattle around. they could be removed... you could allow for air circlulation....it would take time....but not less then foam removal in the first place!....hmmmmm

that along with foam under the deck.......would be more than enough to float when swamped....hmmmmm........hmmmmmmm

oops

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Im going to add the foam to my boat. First of all i dont like to risk life on an "idea" to what someone thinks "might" work. Second of all its against the law for my boat to not have foam. I talked to a guy that does the Vessel checks in the state of Delaware and he told me how much foam is required in my boat. He knew the weight of my vessel from a database and there is a specific number of foam that i am required to have. He gave me the number and its at my parrents house where my boat is but he said it was required by law and he has a 3/8" piece of pipe that he will check the moisture of it also in 2 places. So when i go to get my vessel saftey sticker i have to have 2 places that are accessable to foam below deck that are no less than 6 feet from each other. He said i can close them up after i get my sticker but he has to probe the holes into the foam for a moisture reeding. Tomorrow when i get to my parrents to work on my boat ill grab that paper with all the Delaware rules and regulations. He knew how manny CU FT i would need to be legal and his probe tests the density of the foam as well. It has to be at least a 1.75 per sq something density as well as 3/4 dry. But like i said ill get that paper he faxed me tomorrow. Just think that if its illegal to do the no foam thing than im not going to do it. I dont want to spend the cash on the foam but if its law what ya going to do? See ya guys!

 

[drewmitch44]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Yea like the 2 guys bass fishing and the guy standing on the bow says " hey man i think the boat is leaking!!" and his buddy on the stern says "thats stupid how do you know that?" and the 1st guy points down on the water, and there is about 30,000 brown packing peanuts floating to the shoreline! LOL LOL Id laugh my *** off if i seen that. Thats like those guys that put the pool noodles in their boats. They are made to absorbe water!! They are made to be semi-boyant. And i saw a guy that had a bass boat with pool noodles under the deck. Thats like filling up the under deck area with Damp-rid. Damprid soakes up moisture just like those pool noodles do. Might as well put balled up paper towels under there!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL

 

[Lou C]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

If you were doing a re-build, and were really concerned about the foam/rot issue, one thing you could do would be to coat all the new work in an epoxy barrier coat, like they use on hulls to make the bottom not absorb moisture, and cause blisters. Then even if moisture got it, it would be less likely to penetrate the 'glass.
I would not give up the foam, you never know what could happen out there, and beyond that the boat was engineered to have foam, if you change the design (less rigid) you might not like the way it feels at all, and stress cracks could develop.
I can tell you my boat felt solid before the rebuild, what I found in the rebuild after pulling out all the foam from rotted areas was that the starboard stringer was rotted on the bottom so much so that the front and rear portions were barely connected! Yet the boat felt solid and more importantly, there were no stress cracks on the bottom of the hull. We are re-builders, not engineers, I would not second guess design unless I had the engineering and design background.
What I do now is to be very careful when storing the boat to keep water out of it and after a big rain like we had last night, I open up the cover and let it air out for a while. Those practices can keep a wood+glass boat in good shape for a long long time. Most of our rebuilds are of very neglected boats, or the owners had no idea of how to store them right.

 

[Robj]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

I agree with Lou C. I do have an engineering background, but by no means am I a boat designer, and that is why I put the foam back in. I am sure the foam adds to the structural integrity of the boat, which I am sure in incorporated into the design. I also do some boating on the Fraser River where sometimes it is very difficult to see the logs floating on the surface, or sometimes they are even slightly below. So far I have been able to avoid them.

However as Lou C stated, you should take every precaution to keep it dry, storing it under a cover, indoors if possible. Also make the compartments that will be filled with foam as water proof as possible. Mine are sealed right up.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Coors]

Re: boat rot...wet foam prevention.

Can't remember the length of your boat, less than 20, USCG wants foam.