Boat speed

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Hi,

I am planning on buying another boat.

It is a foward console 17.5' deep V hull made by Wahoo. It has 2 x 40hp Mariners on the back. The owner claims a top speed with two adults on board as 48km's per hour or 30 mph. Sound kinda slow, or is that normal?


Cheers
Andrew
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Boat speed

Sounds about right with 2 X 40's. A single 90 would probably push the same boat about 5 MPH faster-minimum.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
51,019
Re: Boat speed

just because, you have 80 hp in 2 motors, does not mean it will perform as a single 80, if the engine height set up is not correct, you could pick up some speed by correcting that. remember you have 2 feet in the water instead of one. the dry hull without motors,gas, gear is between 800-1,000 LBS.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: Boat speed

i have a 14 foot semi V aluminum boat, about 1/3 the weight, 1993 40 with just me it runs 30 mph. you have a lot more boat to push.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Boat speed

The deep V hull design usually has more drag, by design, so it takes more to get less. I'd say if you get 30 on that boat you are going to be lucky. We used to run 40's (singles) on 14' glass and wooden boats with flat transom areas (semi-V) which were pretty light and planed out easily, and if you got to 27 you were going down hill. Grin

Like the folks say, doubles don't get you double the performance.

Mark
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi

I spoke again with the owner of the boat (who happens to work for me) and he confirms that the boat does 30mph as measured on a GPS with a mass of 650lbs (2 fishermen, gear and a mess of fish).

He went on to say that he and his dad spent a lot of time getting the right height on the motors and "balancing" the engines so that they perform the same. They also spent a lot of time testing for the best trim position on the motors as they do not have automatic trim and tilt. Finally he added that the motors at WOT are at 5500rpm so I assume that the props are correct.

Sounds like it is possible to achieve the 30mph. As I don't fish competitions I am sure that 30mph will be sufficient for me? The reason for being nervous is that I am selling my 17' bowrider which does 42.4mph with 850lbs on board and was concerned about the speed differential. I suppose it is now a different kind of boating?

Cheers
Andrew
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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51,019
Re: Boat speed

well if you want to ski or tube, you still can, only need 18 mph to ski. plus you will have great out of the hole power.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
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Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Boat speed

Aaaaah! But those twin engines sing a beautiful song. Wait till the first time you cruise them and hear it.
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi,

Thanks to you all.

I do think that the addition of trim tabs may not be a bad idea and will be investigating this once I have the boat, which should be in a couple of weeks time.

Cheers
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Boat speed

Did a little research.Found some boats similar to yours running single 90s.
All produced speeds close to 40mph and cruise close to 30 at 4,000 rpm using about 4.5 gallons per hour about the same as one of your motors.I'm sure your setup is probably close to ideal so its obvious a twin set up doesn't necessarily double the available power.If you operate where you need back up power a single 90 with a kicker backup might be something to shoot for.
might save you a bunch of gas at $4 a gallon.
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi Steelspike,

By law we are required to have two motors if we wish to venture out to sea. The practice has always been to fit two identical motors with seperate fuel systems for redundancy. It is also very common to have cat hulls on our boats which further points towards two identical engines.

Yup the gas is an issue. I have confirmed that the previous owner used to have 4 x 25 litres tanks on board (US Gallon = 3,78 litres). He would burn about 20 litres per hour at 4000rpm which gave him 28mph. So each motor came in at 5,3 gallons per hour and gave a range of 56 miles.

I never accurately measured my 115 Rude on a 17' bowrider but at a guess would think that I would burn about 8 gallons per hour at 4500/5000rpm. So yes, the two 40's are a fuel guzzler.

You would think that there would be some ratio for fuel to power output as it is energy conversion. i.e. x gallons per hp. I know with the extra foot in the water that the drag increases.

Off the topic, we are at 5600ft above sea level, tests show that on normally aspirated engines (motor cars) that about 17 - 20% power is lost due to the thinner air. Fuel injected engines much less so and turbo's don't feel the difference at all. Test I have done prove that there is a loss, I don't have any quantifyable test method though. A drop in altitude down to water at 1300ft increases the revs by about 400/500rpm. Lots of guys I know have two props for their boats, in my case it would have been a 17" for altitude and a 19" for sea level.

It will be interesting to see what consumption figures at sea level are. The typical consumption figures you quoted, any idea of the altitude?

Cheers
Andrew
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Boat speed

There has been some discussion lately about lower boat speeds and having fun.

So, the last time I was boating I deliberately fooled around at the lower speeds, from 18 to 30 mph. Part of my curiousity was from my early days of boating where 25 hp was as big as it got.

I found that you can have a lot of fun at 25 mph. That is a good refreshing clip for a family joy-ride, or a comfortable speed to get from place to place. Either side is not bad either. My on-plane speed is 18.

As you go faster, I found that the main difference in the higher speeds is how hard the waves are on your bu-tox or on you if you are skiing and fall, how tiny the spray droplets are, where the needle is pointing on your speedometer, how high is your fuel consumption rate, how hard is the wind hitting you in the face, and what does your wake looks like.

If you just want to go fast for the thrill of it, that's another story.....I do that every time I go out, but just to do it (flush the crud out of the engine...grin), then I settle down to more reasonable speeds that are easier on my body. Course my boat tops out at 50 gps (winter months). Lots out there faster.

My 2c,

Mark
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Boat speed

Hi Steelspike,

By law we are required to have two motors if we wish to venture out to sea. The practice has always been to fit two identical motors with seperate fuel systems for redundancy. It is also very common to have cat hulls on our boats which further points towards two identical engines.

Yup the gas is an issue. I have confirmed that the previous owner used to have 4 x 25 litres tanks on board (US Gallon = 3,78 litres). He would burn about 20 litres per hour at 4000rpm which gave him 28mph. So each motor came in at 5,3 gallons per hour and gave a range of 56 miles.

I never accurately measured my 115 Rude on a 17' bowrider but at a guess would think that I would burn about 8 gallons per hour at 4500/5000rpm. So yes, the two 40's are a fuel guzzler.

You would think that there would be some ratio for fuel to power output as it is energy conversion. i.e. x gallons per hp. I know with the extra foot in the water that the drag increases.

Off the topic, we are at 5600ft above sea level, tests show that on normally aspirated engines (motor cars) that about 17 - 20% power is lost due to the thinner air. Fuel injected engines much less so and turbo's don't feel the difference at all. Test I have done prove that there is a loss, I don't have any quantifyable test method though. A drop in altitude down to water at 1300ft increases the revs by about 400/500rpm. Lots of guys I know have two props for their boats, in my case it would have been a 17" for altitude and a 19" for sea level.

It will be interesting to see what consumption figures at sea level are. The typical consumption figures you quoted, any idea of the altitude?

Cheers
Andrew
You are required to have 2 motors is that written "2 identical motors"?
A twin setup is surely slick setup but not the most efficient to operate.
I find it interesting that yours cruises at 28 at 4,000 rpm but only 30 at
probably 5,000 plus.The 2 I checked were 26 @ 4,000 & 37 @ 5,220,and
29 @ 4,000 and 38 @ 5,400.I suppose that has to do with the twin setup.
or hull design.
Was the 4,000 figure determined to be best GPH/MPG or just an arbertrary
figure?2 of the boats I checked the best figure on one was 4,000 the other was 3,500.speeds were within 2 mph.
I use the BRP new motor site for my figures I assume it is at sea level.
I figure they have these set up for very best performance.
Of the 2 boats I selected the lighter boat was slower I assume it probably was
a deeper V.It still produced 37 mph at 5,220 rpm.
You probably know the rule of thumb for GPH is approximately 10% of the hp developed.
If your boat is set up for 5,000 ft elevation I would think you will have to rejet for sea level.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
51,019
Re: Boat speed

some use the 2 prop method for the altitude difference, some use the rejet method. i perfer the rejet method, so the engine gets the right amount of fuel/oil, and not run lean or rich.
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi Steelspike,

You are required to have 2 motors is that written "2 identical motors"?
I am not too sure, it is fundamentally a safety issue, I suppose one could have a kicker motor, no-one here does it though, the tendency is two identical motors. Curious!

A twin setup is surely slick setup but not the most efficient to operate.
So I am finding out and have to agree. The issue is that the boat is real cheap $ 5000. The hull is perfect and needs no work. All I have to do is to remove a poorly made storage area on the deck and to have it redecked and filled with floatation foam (also a must here). It has two 40hp self lube Mariners on it which have done less than 100 hours each. Thought I would keep the rig the same, if after piloting the boat for some time experience leads me to trade the pair in for something else I will. Somehow I doubt it as I use the boat seldom and fish maybe 6 times a year.

I find it interesting that yours cruises at 28 at 4,000 rpm but only 30 at probably 5,000 plus.The 2 I checked were 26 @ 4,000 & 37 @ 5,220,and
29 @ 4,000 and 38 @ 5,400.I suppose that has to do with the twin setup.
or hull design.

I have yet to pilot the boat and am taking information from the current owner, I think some things he does not know and he then guesses the answer. I think that you are probably more correct than what he is.

Was the 4,000 figure determined to be best GPH/MPG or just an arbertrary
figure?2 of the boats I checked the best figure on one was 4,000 the other was 3,500.speeds were within 2 mph.

It's just the round number of rev's he runs at. I would do tests to see which is most efficient, for 2mph it is neither here not there.

I use the BRP new motor site for my figures I assume it is at sea level.
Have you got a web site for me?

You probably know the rule of thumb for GPH is approximately 10% of the hp developed.
I did not know but that is useful. Is the hp quoted at the crank or at the prop? If at the crank what are typical losses through the gearbox?


If your boat is set up for 5,000 ft elevation I would think you will have to rejet for sea level.
If one goes down to a lower altitude for just a couple of days is it advisable to rejet? Is there information on motor vs. altitude vs. jet size?

Hi Texasmark,

I think you hit it on the head, us testosterone charged individuals want everything at max. It's like golf, you always want to be the longest down the fairway.

I have been seriously considering the speed issue and the truth be told I just want to get to a fishing hole in comfort, along with a couple of buddies and at a reasonable pace. I don't want to break down 15 miles from port, I want a good time.

From a fishing perspective the most important thing for me is to have as much deck space as possible, I am 260 lbs and 6'2", so are my mates. I would rather have an underpowered larger boat.

Hi Tashasdaddy,

I understand that as the air density changes with altitude so too must the mixture change.

What then about the about the increased compression and corresponding lift power output. Am I incorrect in believing that this could result still result in overrevving due to the increased power and that another prop may be option, even though the jetting is altered.


Thanks guys appreciate the input.

Andrew

PS: Has the site been down lately?
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Boat speed

you best check the max weight capacity, 3 your size is 780 lbs, plus 2 motors, fuel, and gear, i believe your are near the max wt.
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi Tashasdaddy,

Yup I am cautious. Apparently the boat was made by Wahoo who were bought out by Robelo. I've have signed in on their forum hoping to get information on the boat. I am waiting for someone to respond.


Cheers
Andrew
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Boat speed

BRP site I use google,I put in evinrude etec. Excellent site with lots a specs and performance tests.Figures are probably better than old carbed 2 strokes but give a ball park for different setups.By the way the etecs are very close to that 10% GPH figure at WOT.
The 10% figure is a ball park estimate
actual rating source doesn't matter.GPH doesn't change whether it is a houseboat or a runabout.A properly set up motor will get approximately 10%
of hp in gph. at wot(wide open throttle)
If I understand correctly; running motors set up for 5,000ft at sea level will cause it to run lean.really bad for a 2 stroke.I suppose for a few days you could run heavier on oil but you better get that info from someone more acquainted with changing altitudes.Of course performance will suffer because of running lean.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Boat speed

Hey Andrew, not to hijack the thread, but I am convinced that what makes a senior citizen an old man is the lack of that harmone............Testosterone. So I found an alternate medicine doctor that supervises a company that makes it. Have been on it for a couple of years now and I feel like an 18 year old again......and get this, I had my annual eye exam yesterday, and my optometrist said that for the second straight year he backed out my prescription as my eyes were improving.....when they usually get worse......and that's only part of the story.....grin.

Product is Testo 24, 800 969 8400 in case you're interested.....I would be.

Mark
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Boat speed

Hi guys,

been in the UK and Dubai for the past while.

Mark I hear ya, will have a look for the product.

Okay boys and girls I have been listening intently to what you all have to say. I have also reviewed the usage of the boat and who will find themselves onboard with me. I need an all purpose boat, a cruiser a little fishing a bit of R&R etc. Unfortunately that always means compromise but that where it is.

Engine size, two feet in the water and the additional drag vs. one motor, fuel consumption ...... all the stuff we spoke of.

So I have come up with a compromise, it is what we call a Cabin Cruiser and should do what I want. The picture is the same boat as the one I want but is not the boat I am going to make an offer on.

It is 18'6" and is powered by a 130hp V4 Yamaha. The boat is real clean and looks good. It has a cabin upfront which will sleep two adults comfortably, this will be great as when I am fishing the missus can go with and read / relax / sleep in the cabin. Also great for the grandbuddies who can have a lie down when they are bushed.


interceptor.jpg


interceptorrear.jpg


Although you see one of a pair of 40hp Mariners mine is a single 130 Yammie.

Thanks for all the advice and helping me get closer to a better decision.

Whatcha think, pro's and con's.

Cheers
Andrew
 
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