Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

umblecumbuz

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Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs<br /><br />A boat at rest has its weight spread over the area of the hull in the water. When the boat tries to plane, the bows rise. This leaves a smaller hull area to take the same weight, so the stern sinks. This is exactly the opposite of what we want to happen.<br /><br />As the speed rises the stern stays low in the water and a bow wave is created midway along the hull. The boat then assumes a steep angle as it tries to ‘ride’ this bow wave. The helmsman attempts to correct this condition by trimming the outboard leg. Whether he realises it or not, he begins applying ‘negative trim’ - in other words, he pulls the outboard leg as far into the stern as he can, which forces the propellor to push upwards as well as forwards. The stern lifts, the bows lower, and the boat begins to plane. All seems well - but it’s not!<br /><br />The boat still has a marked angle to the water. Whenever the helmsman tries to trim the propellor out for greater speed, the stern sinks again and the boat then planes with the stern deeper in the water. This ‘drags’ the boat, uses more fuel, makes it less responsive to steering inputs, works the engine harder than necessary, and gives an uncomfortable ride, because the propellor is trying both to move the boat forward and to control its angle in the water.<br /><br />FINS<br />One of the ways of minimising this effect is to fit a fin on the anti-cavitation plate of the outboard. This helps, but has several disadvantages. The fin angle is tied to the propellor angle because both are fitted to the same leg. Most fins work better with slight negative trim, and this means that the propellor will still be operating ‘out of square’ with the water. Some fins have an aerofoil cross-section, and with these, the propellor can be trimmed to run ‘square’, allowing the fin to provide needed stern lift. However, regardless of fin type, there is a negative trade-off. Because the fin is central to the hull, it cannot provide lateral stabilisation (port/starboard). As the fin does not follow the deadrise angle of the hull, it is also a permanent additional source of underwater resistance. The enlarged horizontal surface of the fin can also cause the boat to be less responsive in turns.<br /><br />PROPELLOR<br />The function of the propellor is to drive the boat forward, and it can only do this with maximum efficiency when it is at right angles to the water - ie. running ‘square’. THE OBVIOUS AND MOST EFFECTIVE ANSWER IS TO KEEP PROPULSION AND TRIM FUNCTIONS COMPLETELY SEPARATE.<br /><br />TRIM TABS<br />Trim tabs are specifically designed to control the attitude of the boat separately from the propellor, allowing the propellor to do its proper job. In this, they are more effective than a fin, and give positive benefits to boat handling, ride, speed and economy. Trim tabs are fitted to the outer edges of the transom, in line with the deadrise angle of the hull. When the boat is planing, they offer no additional resistance - in fact, many boats are faster with trim tabs fitted, because they keep the stern higher in the water, giving the boat a reduced ‘footprint’. Their position allows them to stabilise the boat on its port/starboard axis. With trim tabs, the boat will lift onto the plane at a lower speed, so the holeshot - the time taken to reach efficient planing speed - is also faster. The ride will be more comfortable and as the attitude of the boat is more level, the helmsman will have a better view. The engine will work more efficiently, so fuel consumption will be reduced. The forward part of the boat’s hull remains in better contact with the water, and this provides the helmsman with sharper handling response. A well-designed tab profile will also help reduce slippage in tight turns, and will have beneficial effects on boats with a tendency to either chine walk at high speed or wander at low speed.<br /><br />Most trim tabs are ‘dead’ - that is, they remain where they are set by the helmsman, and need to be adjusted either manually or with a remote control (often helmstation mounted ). One advantage of such remote controlled tabs is their facility to adjust the lateral attitude of the boat while under way. This permits levelling the boat due to temporary uneven loading, or raising the side of the craft to seaward to minimise spray. Such adjustments require finesse and common-sense if they are not to be overdone. <br /><br />Another trim tab type, for smaller sports and fishing craft, uses a pressure actuator to continually adjust the angle of the tab plate to compensate for the movement of the boat through the water. This is automatic, with no input needed from the helmsman. This type cannot adjust for lateral trim when under way. The geometry of the design permits the tab to offer reducing downforce as the speed of the boat increases.<br /><br />WANDER<br />As any yachtsman knows, the straight line course of a sailing vessel needs correction to compensate for heel. This is because the hull is only symmetrical when sailing upright. As the yacht heels, a cross-section of the hull in the water will show an assymetric profile, port to starboard. The hull is in effect acting as its own secondary rudder. To a lesser degree the same principles apply to a deep V sports hull. As it moves slowly through the water, its lateral attitude is affected by wind, current, shifting load, or other momentary conditions, and this causes the hull to temporarily assume an assymetric underwater profile, which results in the boat ‘self-steering’ - or wandering. Trim tabs will lessen this effect by their stabilising action on the hull.<br /><br />Not a bad result for a coupla metal flaps on the transom!
 

Jdeagro

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

You got it nailed!
 

BillP

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

NO offense but it isn't "nailed" to me. It needs more info on pros and cons. Some of the fin info is a bit opinionated instead of factual. Improperly selected and installed fins are being used as the norm here.
 

umblecumbuz

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

Hi BillP,<br /><br />You're right - I did give a couple of opinions in the ‘FINS’ section of my post. They boiled down to this:<br />For improving lateral stability, a fin is a poor choice.<br />If responsiveness in turns is an issue, a fin is a poor choice. <br />Guessing a bit, I will be surprised if these views are not generally accepted. <br /><br />The rest of the ‘FINS’ section was fact:<br />Some fins need negative trim.<br />Some fins allow the prop to run ‘square.’<br />Fin angle is tied to prop angle.<br />Fins do not follow the hull deadrise angle.<br />A fin presents an additional source of underwater resistance.<br /><br />I avoided making any selection suggestions either for fin types or trim tab types, so I do not understand the ‘improper selection’ comment. <br /><br />But yes, I certainly lean towards tabs rather than a fin, because I have found them to be far more effective. Possibly the main reason is as I’ve already said - they separate propulsion and trim functions, which a fin cannot do.<br /><br />Be intersting to see if anyone else has firm opinions either way.
 

Jdeagro

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

Trailer boats Magazine did a comparison test about five years ago. Jim Hendricks was the editor at the time. They may be able to get you a reprint.<br /><br />With regard to the "facts" on fins, it is my belief that it will vary significantly from one design to the other. Additionally, the performance will vary depending on the relationship to the hull. If you have an OB the motor can be moved up and down, on an I/O your stuck. If the foil runs below, at, or above water level at cruising speeds the performance characteristics will change. The performance test would be a major task with all of the variations in boat designs combined with foil designs.<br /><br />I still think you summed it up very well.
 

BillP

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

Saying "some" leaves out the other parts of trimming performance and leads the reader with biased info. Pointing out negatives without giving positives makes it a less informative post. I just don't see the point in giving half the info if you are trying to help anyone. It isn't personal so don't take it that way. <br /><br />Improper selection means using a flat fin on a flat bottom hull and vee fin on a deadrise boat. No mention of that was made and the two were grouped together. Are you aware there is a world of difference here concerning speed. It also means running the fin at a correct elevation to keep it out of the water at high speeds so speed isn't scrubbed. Fins are normally used for keeping the bow down while hopping on a plane and not much else. I use one 100% for trimming up for faster speed. You are suggesting all motors should run "square". 95% of the high powered flats and bass boats run faster with the engine trimmed up...even with cockpit adjustable tabs to tweak with. It isn't an exception, it is the norm. As do F1 racers, etc. Trimming the engine to get the bow up makes them run faster. Tabs do NOT do this. I could describe more but this is already too long.
 

Jdeagro

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

BillP;<br /><br />There is no question that setting a specific boat up to perform properly under specific circumstances will improve the results obtained when using a hydrofoil. However, reading the material on the packages for the mass merchandised "fin" make no mention of raising and or lowering the motor, or other adjustments in order to achieve these results. The package in fact simply list a menu of improvements that you are to expect when the "foil" is simply bolted onto the lower unit.<br /><br />My objection to off the shelf plastic foils is that none of the claims indicate that other adjustments may need to be made inorder to achieve these results, or avoid other problems.<br /><br />As for running a prop at a slight angle to lift the bow a bit on hi performance boats, I do not debate this at all. However, these boats again are set up to perform under a very narrow set of circumstances. They are specialty boats, they themselves are not the norm or at least the bulk of the boats in use. We do not claim to have a product that is design for racing. We do claim to have a product that will improve the over all performance characteristics of the mainstream boat population, and we offer a money back performance guarantee. <br /><br />Hydrofoil technology is valid when part of the overall design.
 

BillP

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

Nautijohn,<br />I don't understand why you keep defending your product when we are discussing various ways foils and tabs trim. <br /><br />Concerning advertising and marketing...It doesn't matter what the package says for installation or use on any product. It is up to the operator to be informed. Along with that, 99% of magazine tests are usually written to sell advertising space and product, they rarely say anything negative except for minor quirks. A money back guarantee is an excellent marketing tool too. Fortunately for the seller, only one unhappy customer in ten will return the product. The other nine will go away and never buy the product again. Savy mfgs know the odds and make money on the nine who walked. <br /><br />They may be speciality boats with "narrow" performance requirements but flats and bass boats are a big part of the boating fleet here in Florida. What works on them works on a large majority of under 20' boats. That's why FAQs need to address ALL the different aspects of "trimming" with foils and tabs. Otherwise it's biased to whatever experience the writer has (or doesn't have).
 

Jdeagro

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

BillP;<br /><br />If I am offending you I apologize. We need to respect the fact that we disagree. You are a proponent of foils, as for off the shelf products, I am not. <br /><br />Most people have serious misconceptions as to how trim tabs work on smaller boats. Most boat dealers and manufacturers will tell you that "our boats do not need trim tabs, they will get on plane easily". Yet there are hundreds of thousands of planing devices sold each year (including foils, trim tabs, ride plates etc.) not to mention props. Someone is misinforming the consumers. <br /><br />We disagree on another topic and that is "Truth in advertising". I think it does make a difference. As for how the magazines perform tests and report their findings, I think you would be surprised at how careful they are at publishing biased information. Their reputation is at risk as well. Keep in mind that they set rates based on circulation. If they consistently provide bad recommendations the consumers will stop buying the magazines. <br /><br />As for the performance guarantee, the single reason we offer it is to let potential customers know that we believe in the product to the degree that we will refund their money. It is the easiest way we know to convey our commitment to satisfaction. <br /><br />We ask only one thing of the customer, if they feel that the product is not working as claimed, give us the opportunity (once) to make it work through tech support.<br /><br />Frankly, our total return rate is less than 1% of total sales to all customers and retailers, and actual refunds request because of deficiencies in performance is one (1) in 6 years. <br /><br />I would invite you to post the question, and I would be interested to see the response.
 

umblecumbuz

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

It's good to see a post that's not bland! A bit of forthright opinion is often very productive, and this post serves to show that many aspects of boat design are trade-offs. <br /><br />I think it’s fairly obvious that my comments were aimed more at general-purpose boats than those with a narrower range of uses. Most boat-owners are not specialists, as can be seen by the constant stream of questions asked on this forum. I stand by what I originally posted.<br /><br />I wonder how many boat owners just screw on a fin and hope, without realising the need, as BillP says, to fine tune the motor height, trim and fin type for best performance? Eyeballing a few boats on the hard here that have fins, the majority are not aware of this. I have yet to see here a vee fin matching a ‘deadrise’ hull. Although this could be a local market peculiarity, I don’t think so. A glance at a few used boat ads will verify that the majority with ‘deadrise’ hulls still have flat fins on the leg.<br /><br /> With the sports cum family craft, factors other than all-out speed become important – such as stability and ride comfort. I wonder who would argue that fins are more effective and user-friendly than tabs in these areas?
 

BillP

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

Hey Nautijohn,<br />Not that you asked, but the way I see it this thread started as a discussion on trimming with tabs and foils. Opinions and facts were posted to give pros and cons of each. And I suppose most potential buyers want to learn everything they can before plunking down hard earned cash. Then it was hijacked and went off topic into your product marketing and company return policy. Now I say to you sir, how is that to be interpreted for the continued discussion of trimming? <br /><br />Read this carefully. I never said truth in advertising isn't important. The WHOLE truth is important, not just the biased half truth that sells products. I don't see foil or tab mfgs saying anything about their product being in the way when fishing, launching or beaching, etc...and tabs are worse than foils in this respect. Marketing ads and magazine testing never disclose those negative points. But you are 100% correct, the pubic is not being informed by many manufacturers of negatives that might compromise a sale.<br /><br />And for anyone who cares, I have and use foils and cockpit adjustable tabs (tabs for 30+ yrs and foils approx 20 yrs). Each has it's place along with the positives and negatives. If I had to choose only one it would be tabs for the widest trimming options. Toggles, not rockers.<br /><br />Ya'll have a nice day now, ya hear? :D
 

Jdeagro

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Re: Boat Trimming with Foils or Tabs

BillP;<br /><br />I was just reading another Post which had nothing to do with Trim Tabs, foils etc. Two of the participants got into a very heated and personal exchange. I thought that was sad! The world has plenty of more serious issues to deal with than anything related to boats. <br /><br />If I hi-jacked this post with marketing issues please accept my appology. And I agree with you that the consumer has an obligation to himself to become informed about his purchase. Unfortunately that information is not always readily available, and the package is his only immediate guide to the purchase. <br /><br />If you are a fisherman trim tabs, the prop, a foil, transducers or anything else attached to the boat can certainly cause you to loose the big one. I personaly never lost a small one, they were always the realy big ones. Funny how that works!<br /><br />In any event I still think we have a better mouse trap, but then I should!
 
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